Discouraged

[CopperB]

you shoot as though you have 1600 film in your camera, as you say, using the shutter speeds etc required by that film speed and then develop the film as though it was 1600 iso.

this is an example of the result with Ilford HP5+ which is rated at 400 pushed to 1600:

this roll required very light adjustment just to pop the blacks slightly. the images were made in a very dark barn with ambient lighting

Thanks Nathan. Developing it as 1600 is something I hadn't realized. So, when I've had 400 developed that was shot as 200, I should have told the lab to process it as 200?

 

[CopperB]

Good photos. A surreptitious incident metering for that first one might have made the difference.

Yes, I did one for another photo in the pub that turned out better although I think I need to up the contrast. This is straight out of the camera

 

[CopperB]

A late Christmas gift arrived and in it are 3 rolls of B&W, 2 rolls of XP2 and 1 of Rollei, development and prints/scan included. Time to experiment. Any pointers using these films?

 

[MCTuomey]

hi patti, nice gift! i would expose the xp-2 at ISO 250 (meaning meter for it as if the film were rated at 250). that 2/3 stop will help the blacks and mid-tones quite a bit, at least that's my experience.

 

[CopperB]

Thanks Mike! Do you have any experience with the Rollei film?

 

[MCTuomey]

sorry, patti, i don't. but have a look at one review:

http://www.imaginarymagnitude.net/blog/archives/2005/10/rollei_retro_40.html

and there have been a few threads here, i think

 

[CopperB]

P.S. nice choice of avatar. I had a few of those while I was in the toon.

 

[NathanJD]

Thanks Nathan. Developing it as 1600 is something I hadn't realized. So, when I've had 400 developed that was shot as 200, I should have told the lab to process it as 200?

Hi patty, sorry i've taken a while to get back, yes, when you have the film developed you need to tell them what you exposed the film at. that being the case though pic 1 would have been even darker if it had been developed at 200! get out there and use those belated gifts and enjoy! 😉

 

[Papa Smurf]

I second MCTuomey's advice.

I second MCTuomey's advice.

patti, i'm going to go against the flow and suggest you start with ilford xp-2 or kodak BW400CN, both C-41 films. since at the moment you are dependent on the lab/shop, they will likely produce better negatives and scans from C-41 than silver film. expose either C-41 suggestion at 250, not box speed. work on your exposure and metering, etc. when you nail the exposure and composition, you'll have good pics (and more fun) because the variances in film processing and scanning by the lab will be minimized.

just a thought based on the principle that, while learning a new type of camera and way of shooting, it's best to minimize other variables.

oh and shots 1,3,4 look like they're presenting considerable contrast challenges. E.g. the rear pews vs the far white wall in the church shot, the upper right window versus the coats in the bar shot. no wonder the lab is having trouble with the development and scanning - those are tough scenes to shoot and dev and scan well.

Patti, your first experiences are very similar to my first attempts. MCTuomey's suggestion to use a C-41 B&W film to minimize the variables and then to learn the PP part of this business/hobby is good advice. It is the way that I have taken to date. Since I live south of the border, in the US, I do not know what film processing is available in Canada. My local Walgreen's Drug store has an one hour service which I abuse terribly. I ask that they process only and do not cut the film strip. It costs my about $2.19 US for 24 exposures including local sales tax and they can process a roll of film in under fifteen minutes . I say 'about' because some of the girls (oops, Ladies) take pity on me and just charge the 24 exposure rate no matter how many of the films are 36 exposures! Anyway, do not get discouraged. Did your first attempts at walking produce Ballerina like movements? Every new undertaking has its learning curve, and as MCTuomey says, reducing the number of variables is a great way to increase the likelihood of success.😉

 

[Papa Smurf]

I agree, I don't think you are missing anything but poor exposure on the bad ones. Maybe keep notes on difficult exposures or bracket those low light or other difficult exposures. You should keep working at it. Your good ones are good.

Patti, I covered this info in another thread about using outdated film at what ISO, but here is a link <http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/matpchtml/images/MatsonLogMed.jpg> that illustrates G. Erik and Edith Matson's method of keeping notes. I have notebooks that I made up at my local quick printers. The format was on the Net as open source from some old notebooks sold commercially in France 50 years ago. I think by Vivitar or something like that. I am unable to reacquire that web site at this time, but a little imagination of what is important to record can be interred into a spreadsheet and then reduced to pocket size, printed, and bound. A cheap and quick solution is a pocket voice recorder. Just take notes while shooting and transcribe them to any notebook when you get home.

Best of luck with your photography. By the way, There is nothing wrong with the images except inconsistant exposure. Guess what, I have been doing this for over fifty years and that is still my bug-a-boo! :bang: I suspect that when one reaches the level of expertise that insures that every image is perfectly exposed, perfectly composed, and perfectly presented, the game will be over.

 

[CopperB]

Patti, I covered this info in another thread about using outdated film at what ISO, but here is a link <http://lcweb2.loc.gov/pp/matpchtml/images/MatsonLogMed.jpg> that illustrates G. Erik and Edith Matson's method of keeping notes. I have notebooks that I made up at my local quick printers. The format was on the Net as open source from some old notebooks sold commercially in France 50 years ago. I think by Vivitar or something like that. I am unable to reacquire that web site at this time, but a little imagination of what is important to record can be interred into a spreadsheet and then reduced to pocket size, printed, and bound. A cheap and quick solution is a pocket voice recorder. Just take notes while shooting and transcribe them to any notebook when you get home.

Best of luck with your photography. By the way, There is nothing wrong with the images except inconsistant exposure. Guess what, I have been doing this for over fifty years and that is still my bug-a-boo! :bang: I suspect that when one reaches the level of expertise that insures that every image is perfectly exposed, perfectly composed, and perfectly presented, the game will be over.

I suspect Erik & Matson were physicians, based on their penmanship. 😀 I've tried, in the past to carry around a small notebook with columns for fstop, shutter speed, lens etc. but have found that I'm usually trying to capture street scenes that don't afford me the time to write down these details while I'm shooting. I also worry a bit about raising suspicions when I'm taking photographs AND writing in a notebook. Heck, even I'd get paranoid. I do, however realize how valuable that info is to evaluate what I'm doing, what's working and what isn't. I will endeavour to give it another go.

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Hey Patti, I'm with the majority here--you WANT low contrast in your scans, so you have maximum detail and can adjust it to your liking later. Contrast adjustment is a natural part of B&W photography, whether it's in the darkroom or on the computer. One of the nice things about B&W is that you have a LOT more latitude for this than in color, generally.

Home developing of B&W film is incredibly easy and cheap--you should definitely get into it.

 

[Steve M.]

Well, you might want to ck your meter as it seems to be underexposing in low light. Or ck your metering. That's a difficult shot under any circumstances (the Pup shot). My understanding is the Arista Premium is Tri-X rebranded, which will give you beautiful blacks, but as MCToumey mentioned it's a difficult film for low light if it's underexposed. If it's exposed right it will be fine. Could be your camera's shutter running slow at slower speeds as well. I like real B&W, but maybe the fake C41 film would be worth a try. Doesn't look like the lab did anything wrong though, and Tri-X is one of the most forgiving films there is for development. The only solution is to ck your camera's shutter speeds and your meter and go from there. Here's my stab at fixing your shot. Oddly similar to 35photo's!, but I added a little sharpening and contrast along w/ levels. It really isn't a bad shot at all under that lighting.

 

[CopperB]

Hey Patti, I'm with the majority here--you WANT low contrast in your scans, so you have maximum detail and can adjust it to your liking later. Contrast adjustment is a natural part of B&W photography, whether it's in the darkroom or on the computer. One of the nice things about B&W is that you have a LOT more latitude for this than in color, generally.

Home developing of B&W film is incredibly easy and cheap--you should definitely get into it.

Thanks. I forget that I'm looking essentially at the negative when I download the scans.

 

[Papa Smurf]

I hear you.

I hear you.

I suspect Erik & Matson were physicians, based on their penmanship. 😀 I've tried, in the past to carry around a small notebook with columns for fstop, shutter speed, lens etc. but have found that I'm usually trying to capture street scenes that don't afford me the time to write down these details while I'm shooting. I also worry a bit about raising suspicions when I'm taking photographs AND writing in a notebook. Heck, even I'd get paranoid. I do, however realize how valuable that info is to evaluate what I'm doing, what's working and what isn't. I will endeavour to give it another go.

Patti, I hear you on trying to take notes and take pictures, especially with street photography. The same with candids at a wedding. People start to get uncomfortable if the photographer is not smooth and unobtrusive.

That is why I mentioned a small voice recorder. Since you live in Canada, I assume that you wear shirts with pockets (as in flannel) and therefore it would be easy to pop the recorder in a pocket on Voice activated mode and then you just "talk to the hand" oops that was Arnold Schwarzenegger's line, I meant talk to the pocket. It would be less conspicuous than writing in a notebook and the bonus is that some people would think you a bit touched and ignore you altogether. Seriously, I have been trying to improve my photo skills for nearly 50 years and I just cannot remember enough details about a shot unless I have some kind of written record. It is paradoxical that most digital cameras do record the EXIF data for each shot. I have a Minolta 700SI that does just that, record each shots pertinent data on a little memory card in the camera. Too bad there isn't a rangefinder that would do that!

 

[wgerrard]

Since you live in Canada, I assume that you wear shirts with pockets (as in flannel)...

??????????

 

[Papa Smurf]

??????????

Flannel as in cold weather wear. Like they sell in Cabela's have pockets on the shirt chest high that are great for carrying things like tape recorders, cigarettes, cell phones. I know that she is a girl, but it would be a great unobtrusive way to carry a small tape recorder, besides lots of girls down here wear flannel shirts in the winter time.. I was just trying to suggest ways that she could make notes about lighting and exposure that would be beneficial to her later when she was evaluating the negatives. Her OP seemed very negative and I thought that she might me on the verge of packing it in. I am an encourager. Ask anyone that knows me. I believe that most people create their own bogeymen in their heads and I try to show them ways that they can work around the problem that has them so discouraged. I get flamed all the time for my good intentions that are misinterpreted partly due to my inability to express myself in a manner that others will interpret my true intentions. 🙁

 

[CopperB]

Flannel as in cold weather wear. Like they sell in Cabela's have pockets on the shirt chest high that are great for carrying things like tape recorders, cigarettes, cell phones. I know that she is a girl, but it would be a great unobtrusive way to carry a small tape recorder, besides lots of girls down here wear flannel shirts in the winter time.. I was just trying to suggest ways that she could make notes about lighting and exposure that would be beneficial to her later when she was evaluating the negatives. Her OP seemed very negative and I thought that she might me on the verge of packing it in. I am an encourager. Ask anyone that knows me. I believe that most people create their own bogeymen in their heads and I try to show them ways that they can work around the problem that has them so discouraged. I get flamed all the time for my good intentions that are misinterpreted partly due to my inability to express myself in a manner that others will interpret my true intentions. 🙁

Don't worry Papa Smurf. I'm not going to pack it in or sic Gargamel on you. LOL I really appreciate your suggestions and input. The recorder is a good idea. I think I've got an old small one in my drawer at work dating back to the good old days when I still had secreterial support that included transcribing patients' reports.
The flannel shirt really isn't my esthetic in winter. I'm more of a turtleneck kind of gal but I see your point about the pocket. Red Green has not done much to convey fashion sense here in Canada to a US audience I'm afraid. LOL

 

[Papa Smurf]

Great news!

Great news!

Don't worry Papa Smurf. I'm not going to pack it in or sic Gargamel on you. LOL I really appreciate your suggestions and input. The recorder is a good idea. I think I've got an old small one in my drawer at work dating back to the good old days when I still had secreterial support that included transcribing patients' reports.
The flannel shirt really isn't my esthetic in winter. I'm more of a turtleneck kind of gal but I see your point about the pocket. Red Green has not done much to convey fashion sense here in Canada to a US audience I'm afraid. LOL

It is great news Patti, that you are not going to pack it in. I was worried, because once, I gave away a fairly complete kit to a young woman who wanted desperately to do photography. When her first efforts did not produce results equal to Ansel Adams, she became so discouraged that now she does not take any pictures! :bang:

And about ladies fashions, I am at a lose to understand. Many young ladies in my neck of the woods drive jeeps and four-wheel drive pickups and wear designer jeans and tops. Turtlenecks are my wife's favorite winter wear, along with designer snow boots that are neither warm nor waterproof!!!!!!!! Go figure? 😕

Patti, you have gotten some really good info, not from me, but from other posters, about your pictures. You must be an educated lady, so you know about learning curves and the struggle that they sometimes involve. So, do as the Secretary of the Interior told the Chiefs of the five civilized tribes, "endeavor to persevere." 🙄

 

[degruyl]

Hi patty, sorry i've taken a while to get back, yes, when you have the film developed you need to tell them what you exposed the film at. that being the case though pic 1 would have been even darker if it had been developed at 200! get out there and use those belated gifts and enjoy! 😉

Putting things together:

I suspect that EI 200 may be too much for a normal overexposure of Tri-X (ISO 400). Perhaps less, such as 2/3 or 1/3 stop. (I use 200 WITH a yellow filter, which is somewhere around 2/3-1 stop filter factor. You did remember the filter factor when hand metering, right?)

That being said: the first shot might have been scanned at the same settings as the overexposed shots from outside. If you set the scanner on auto, it might just keep going after the first shot, rather than adjusting the exposure for each frame individually.

I don't know what scanner the lab was using, and probably do not have experience with it.