Discrete 90mm

[Steve_F]

Hi all,
I'm looking to get a 90mm Elmarit or Pre-asph 'cron (price limitations) for my black M6 TTL . As I shall be using it alot for street work, wide open has anyone got any photos of their own black M bodies with either of these attached? I've taken the dimensions of both and drawn them on paper but it's not quite the same as seeing one mounted.
UK dealer prices seem to be roughly the same for both.
I understand the Elmarit is better than the pre-asph wide open but dof is also a factor to consider.

Thanks.

Steve.

 

[cnphoto]

The old chrome Elmarit w/ leatherette band or a newer elmarit?

The old elmarit can be had for a few hundred at most, performs wonderful (nice and sharp wide open at F2.8) I quiet like it. I can take a photo of it mounted on my M4-P if that's the one you're referring to?

 

[Steve_F]

One of the newer Elmarits in black is what I was referring to.
Thanks for the offer though.

Regards,

Steve.

 

[awilder]

The "thin" Tele-Elmarit (TE) is your best bet if you are looking for "discrete". Based on my use of every f/2 or f/2.8 M lens except the earlier "fat" TE, the image quality of the "thin" TE is a bit better than the Elmarit that preceeded it, especially at f/2.8-5.6. Sharpness and contrast are quite similar to the pre-ASPH. 'cron, i.e. wide open they are near equal and both improve in equal amounts as they are stopped down. Peak sharpness is acheived at f/5.6 or f/8. The weight of the "thin" TE is the same or slightly less than the black Wetzlar 50 'cron from 1969-78 and the size is similar too, just slightly longer. It's only flaw is it's tendency to flare without the hood in adverse lighting, so use of a hood is highly recommended. The only compact f/2.8 lens that better's it optically is the 90/2.8 Hexanon-M. The current Elmarit-M is optically among the best 90 made but it's size and weight are similar to the 90 pre-ASPH. 'cron.

 

[3rdtrick]

I have the "Canada" pre APO cron. It is wonderful on both the M9 and M6 TTL but it is quite big and heavy. Would not consider it to be discreet though. I often do not carry it because of that and I am not trying to be discreet. The thin TE as awilder suggests may be better that way.
Pete

 

[ferider]

Just a quick and dirty shot:

M-Hex 90/2.8 on the left, 90/2 pre-asph, v3 on the right. The Elmarit-M and 90/2.8 Hex felt identical in size, when I had the Elmarit.

Hope this helps,

Roland.

 

[Steve_F]

Ferider, Thats great. That helps alot. It is exactly the sort of thing I was talking about.

Many thanks,

Steve.

 

[menos]

I'd go less after the look of the lenses from the outside (not sooo great a difference for your subjects), but after the different operation and the very different look!

The Elmarit-M does have a very sharp, modern look, while the 90 Cron pre ASPH really glows.

This can be your advantage or an issue, depending, what you want!

An issue with the Cron, it is, when you want to compose off center wide open and expect sharp performance - this you will get not!

With the Elmarit, this is no issue.

The Elmarit is also much faster to focus (lighter and smaller turn).
Focussing the 90 Cron on moving targets can be a challenge, if things move quick and unpredictable - the Elmarit is far easier here.

I have found, that the Cron is not the Elmarit for low light, but an Elmarit with less depth of field and a very dreamy oof drawing (wonderful for portraits).

The Cron is less contrasty (which helps in Digital low light, to preserve shadow detail).
You can make the Cron work though also in low light - I have some evening/night/morning shots with the Cron from Le Mans this year with a M8.
A few shots on the street are in my galleries as well (both the Cron and Elmarit).

The Cron is MUCH heavier (but not much bigger) than the Elmarit.
Subjectively felt, the Cron alone weights as much as a loaded M6 classic with 28 Cron ASPH !!! The Elmarit is a very light lens.

I would get both ;-)
First the Elmarit as an allrounder or first the Cron, when portraits or slow moving subjects in low light are your thing (think, if you need off center sharpness or not).

 

[StaaleS]

M3 with Tele-Elmarit 90mm f/2.8. As discreet as they come, I believe.

 

[Steve Bellayr]

First all aforementioned Leica lenses are excellent. The question is under adverse circumstances (discreetly shooting in public) which would be the easiest and most discreet lens? I agree with StaaleS. The tele-elmarit thin version is not much larger than the 50mm Summicron. As for speed the tele-elmar's f2.8 is the same as the 50mm elmar-m's. With 400 speed film and daylight the difference between f2.8 and f2.0 is weight & size.

 

[Mudman]

Even smaller is the elmar 9 cm f4 screwmount. I have a chrome one that is coated from the early fifties. Excellent performer with a very vintage look. and tiny.

 

[ederek]

Here's the Tele-Elmarit 90mm f/2.8 on an M9, with the small collapsible rubber hood.

It definitely flares if there is a strong light source in front of the lens, even well outside the frame.

 

[rpsawin]

For a small 90 look at the Elmar-C. I think it's an F4 but it's very small.

Bob

 

[Nikon Bob]

M3 with Tele-Elmarit 90mm f/2.8. As discreet as they come, I believe.

I think they are a good compromise wrt size and speed and just love my fat version of that lens. The are one stop faster than a 90 Elmar and a bit bigger but one stop slower that a 90 Cron but one heck of a lot smaller and lighter.

Bob

 

[chrism]

Well, for discretion, the Macro Elmar M has got to be the tiniest of all.

Chris

 

[tim_n]

I've owned and used each of the Elmarit 90/2.8 M versions for extended periods over the years: the original "long" one from the 1960's, the "fat" TE in the 1970's, two copies of the "thin" TE from the 1980's, and finally the Elmarit-M that was produced 1988-2007. My anecdotal comparison, just of my personal copies: the original is beautifully built, but feels far too large and unbalanced on an M body. Optically great, but I ended up leaving it in the bag too much. My fat TE was just not acceptably sharp at larger apertures, maybe just my copy. The thin TE's were so compact that I really wanted to like them. I used them frequently for several years, BUT both of my copies flared under so many conditions, even though I used the larger metal hood, that they constantly disappointed me. After my second copy performed as poorly as my first one, I just didn't trust the thin TE. Neither of my copies had the etching/hazing in the cemented elements that appears on some copies; still, they flared terribly and not always predictably. I know others have had good results with the TE's, so perhaps there is sample variation to watch for. On the other hand, my copy of the recent Elmarit-M is awesome. I've used it for about 10 years now, and I trust its performance under all conditions. To me, it has the perfect size and weight for a 90. I like the heft of the lens, because the extra inertia helps me stabilize the lens hand-held, yet it's still very compact. For me, the thin TE's were sometimes just too small and light to hold steady; I think the later Elmarit-M has the ergonomics just right. I use it often wide open---I love its rendering of the transition from sharp focus to OOF areas., both on film and digital. My only concern with this lens is that the focus throw is fairly steep---a small twist moves the focus quite a bit, so you need to focus carefully.

 

[hendriphile]

The "thin" Tele-Elmarit (TE) is your best bet if you are looking for "discrete". Based on my use of every f/2 or f/2.8 M lens except the earlier "fat" TE, the image quality of the "thin" TE is a bit better than the Elmarit that preceeded it, especially at f/2.8-5.6. Sharpness and contrast are quite similar to the pre-ASPH. 'cron, i.e. wide open they are near equal and both improve in equal amounts as they are stopped down. Peak sharpness is acheived at f/5.6 or f/8. The weight of the "thin" TE is the same or slightly less than the black Wetzlar 50 'cron from 1969-78 and the size is similar too, just slightly longer. It's only flaw is it's tendency to flare without the hood in adverse lighting, so use of a hood is highly recommended. The only compact f/2.8 lens that better's it optically is the 90/2.8 Hexanon-M. The current Elmarit-M is optically among the best 90 made but it's size and weight are similar to the 90 pre-ASPH. 'cron.

+1 With that lens mounted, most people will not even think you're using a telephoto lens.