Dismal Camera Industry Sales Numbers

I was surprised that ILCs were down 35% in January and I don't think have recovered in the ensuing months. These are not the P&S cameras I would have expected (and which undoubtedly were also down). Are these the ASP-C kit cameras or ILCs more generally? In other words, how far up the food chain do these declines extend? It is no wonder we are seeing the emphasis on FF and larger (and more expensive). The iPhone is eating the other cameras' lunch.
 
ptpdprinter said:
I was surprised that ILCs were down 35% in January and I don't think have recovered in the ensuing months. These are not the P&S cameras I would have expected (and which undoubtedly were also down). Are these the ASP-C kit cameras or ILCs more generally? In other words, how far up the food chain do these declines extend?
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The decline is pretty much across the entire industry. The only way camera companies are able to mitigate these losses is by raising prices. We are seeing a lot more $2000 and $2400 lenses than in years past and the large drop in sales volume is the reason why. Prices will continue to go up as companies must have revenue to offset fixed costs.
 
jsrockit said:
I think it’s because while a cellphone can be used to produce a good image in good light, it still isn’t that fun to use, haptics and ergonomics wise, for many people. If people sneer at digital in general here, you can’t expect phones to go over well.

Libyan Sugar and Office Romance are two great photo books made with iPhones (4 and 5 I believe) and that sticks in my head. It’s a serious tool when used by a serious photographer for sure.
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I certainly do not enjoy shooting with my iPhone, but the results are so good that I will accept that with the return that I no longer need to have my Fuji X100 with me. I have saved enormous money stepping off the upgrade path with digital cameras. 7 years since I last bought a digital camera! Previous to that I upgraded all the time, at one time owning 15 digital cameras.
 
PRJ said:
It is to be expected with mature technology. Newer cameras have had diminishing returns for years now. There is very little difference between older cameras and newer ones. The megapixel race is over. People realized that they don't need "better" when their old camera was more than good enough "back then" and is still more than good enough now. The whole mirrorless thing is just a sidestep to something different that has little to do with performance in an effort to increase sales.
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Totally agree with this sentiment. I used a pair of Nikon D2H bodies for newspaper/commercial work for a decade. Even had one image from these 4.1MP beasts cropped by half and blown up to 6 feet x 12 feet for use on a billboard!
 
I now am reaping the benefits of such a market, as a person without much budget I tend to allocate resources towards the film side. Finally upgraded my m43 to an EM5 which I bought off an estate. Cheap, almost new, body that may be 6-7? years but can have a long service life. Likewise, I was lucky to get the 35-100 2.8 from a photographer that got it from a gig and sold it cheap.


I do eye in the newer m43 for their "HiRes" mode, or the Sony Alphas, to squeeze higher quality and use it as a "film scanner". Finally, with software like NLP and excellent digital cameras, there is a heir to the ancient lab scanners.


As tools, of course I do see the advantage of the latest generation of bodies. But 2012 seems like "decreasing returns" good.
 
Ted Striker said:
I certainly do not enjoy shooting with my iPhone, but the results are so good that I will accept that with the return that I no longer need to have my Fuji X100 with me. I have saved enormous money stepping off the upgrade path with digital cameras. 7 years since I last bought a digital camera! Previous to that I upgraded all the time, at one time owning 15 digital cameras.
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How did you justify to yourself (because only you really matters in this question) having 15 :)eek:) digital (I assume) cameras at one time? The most I have ever own was two and they would both get a workout. I currently have just two cameras (a Fuji X100S w/WCL attached and a X100S w/TCL attached). Even when I was a working newspaper shooter I never owned more than two. When I sold them both (Nikon D2H bodies) had exceeded their shutter lifes but continue to work. Having never bought into the MP race since 4.1MP was more than sufficient for most of my work, the only reason I saw to jump on the next iteration (at the time it was the Nikon D3) was for the increase in ISO sensitivity and less noise. But to each their own I guess.:D
 
seagrove said:
How did you justify to yourself (because only you really matters in this question) having 15 :)eek:) digital (I assume) cameras at one time?
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No real justification really. I have a lot of money to spend and cameras were my primary interest at the time. I could always find a new camera that did something ever so slightly different than the ones I already owned. Plus, I enjoyed collecting Fujifilm cameras. 90% of my cameras were all Fuji's and so I built up a (for me) nice collection. Many of them are gone now as I simply don't shoot digital much as I converted over to film almost exclusively. I am certainly not anti-film. I have many Fujifilm film cameras and as well as Nikon and Canon SLR.
 
Peter Wijninga said:
Because it's not much fun making pictures with a phone. And, as you know, high-end phones sales -with enhanced camera capabilities, are tanking.
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I agree. I'm only up to an iPhone 7, but the shutter lag on that thing reminds me of ca 2000 point and shoots. They are also hard to hold securely. The output is nice though, and I agree that they are perfectly fine for 99% of folks who just want a no hassle photo.

It will be interesting to see whether camera production reaches equilibrium before it is totally uneconomic for any manufacturer to continue. There are still blacksmiths and farriers, but my guess is that the breakeven point to manufacture what they need in the way of tools and materials is a lot lower than making cameras and film.

I'm an old man. my cameras will likely outlast me, and I think black and white film will still be made as long as I can still use it. After me, the deluge! ;-)
 
I have a friend who travels a lot and uses FB an awful lot. Her favorite camera is an older Samsung that will let her post picture straight from the camera to FB. She likes it so well that she spent the cost of the camera again to have it repaired. I see that as a possible avenue for the manufacturers, and oddly there aren't any that do that now.
 
Keith said:
And so is a pin hole if you like fuzz and vignetting! lol
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Sure is...that’s the point. All cameras are capable of making an incredible image. However, part of what makes photography fun for many is that you enjoy using the camera. If you do, you’ll most likely remember to use it more.
 
ChipMcD said:
It will be interesting to see whether camera production reaches equilibrium before it is totally uneconomic for any manufacturer to continue. There are still blacksmiths and farriers, but my guess is that the breakeven point to manufacture what they need in the way of tools and materials is a lot lower than making cameras and film.
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How many global blacksmith companies are there? None. The infrastructure to support designing millions of cameras,producing them, selling them, and then providing after sales support is enormous and requires a lot of revenue to keep the doors open.


Camera makers are experiencing severe revenue drops, year after year after year.
 
Darthfeeble said:
I have a friend who travels a lot and uses FB an awful lot. Her favorite camera is an older Samsung that will let her post picture straight from the camera to FB. She likes it so well that she spent the cost of the camera again to have it repaired. I see that as a possible avenue for the manufacturers, and oddly there aren't any that do that now.
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If all you are doing is posting to FB, may as well use a phone. That is what they are designed to do.
 
Ted Striker said:
The latest camera sales numbers are in and the bloodletting that the industry has been undergoing the past several years shows no signs of letting up. There's still a massive contraction in the camera market with revenues down severely. Something has *got* to give.



What is going to save the traditional camera industry? Can it be saved?

  • Canon down 23%
  • Sony down 7%
  • Nikon down 21%
  • Fujifilm down 3%
  • Olympus down 24%
  • Ricoh (Pentax) up 4%
  • Overall camera shipments (CIPA) were down 25% in dollars
  • Overall lens shipments (CIPA) were down 13% in dollars
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Just my opinion of course, but I think a really great camera or three, and perfect lenses to go with them, delivered and marketed professionally from Nikon (for instance) won't do much to diminish the 21% figure you cite. The pie is simply getting smaller for the industry, and it's likely that a complete re-think of their core business is in order (and hopefully underway).

Aiming to compete with phones is problematic; innovating around the phone crisis is where the action is. I'm sure there are talented product development and marketing analysts working on the what comes next problem, from inside or outside the companies listed. It's a rich project because the companies have so much history and talent to leverage in new directions.
 
I've just read this entire thread... whew! I've come away with two thoughts:


First, I expect that no matter what happens to the industry (photo making tools, whether camera or phone), we will always end up with tools that do the job. Some of us get used to doing the job one way and hang on to that. Others jump from one tool to the next. But as has always been the case, successful use of the tool will depend on the brain/eye/talent, not on the tool.


And second, I now realize that I'm somewhat intrigued by the idea of accepting the challenge of doing my photography with a phone. Its tempting... selling off all this gear and live with an ever-ready phone! Hmmm....
 
jawarden said:
......The pie is simply getting smaller for the industry, and it's likely that a complete re-think of their core business is in order (and hopefully underway)........
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I read the Canon article in the Nikkei. The current market for interchangeable lens cameras is about 10 million /year. Canon sees it dropping, but stabilizing, at about 5-6 million/year. In the future, Canon will be concentrate more on industrial, surveillance and medical imaging and less on consumer-grade cameras.

Jim B.
 
Innovation for innovations sake is a losing game

Innovation for innovations sake is a losing game

Dear Board,


In all honesty, who here could not survive with a 12 to 16 Mpeg camera?


Eventually the early adopters stop adopting all the innovations. Who really cares among the majority of users that you can take a photograph using only the light provided by lightning bugs so long as you have a $ 4000.00 camera body and it's corresponding $ 6000.00 lens.


I have newer used cameras, but my most reliable camera remains my Canon EOS 1DMKII. It focuses better and faster than almost anything I own. I take pictures of animals and birds and get some very good ones out of it because of how well it performs. I know there are days when it will struggle to acquire focus because of less than perfect light combined with f4 and f5.6 lenses, so on those days I stay home.


Eventually they, meaning camera makers, will learn that there is a realistic limit to how much you can dump on people before they say they are full.


Regards,


Tim Murphy


Harrisburg, PA :)
 
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