Divide D76/4

[TimeShot]

I purchased a package of Kodak D-76. I asked the sales person if I could divide the contents in 4ths. I want to do this so I could mix into my 1 liter/qt bottle. The person said it was not advisable as the powder would be inconsistent, each package could possibly have more of one chemical than the rest. I was thinking about placing the contents into a jar screw on the lid and give it a good shake. Then using a scale divide into 4 equal parts. I like to have another opinion, so anyone tried dividing the package and did it work for you?

 

[timor]

Well, the sales person was right, you can not divide powder mixtures, no matter how much shake you will apply. Even worst, shake might cause different fractions of the mix to come together. It will be better to dissolve whole pack and store the fluid in good bottles in dark space. Even 1 year is no problem.

 

[Moriturii]

As timor said. Just mix the whole bag. Get a couple of 1liter dark glass bottles, fill it up to the top and close the lid TIGHTLY.

I've used D76 that is 8 months old, works great still (I admit, I don't test my negs with a densitometer though).

One funny thing I've noticed that sort of blew my mind though. I filled my bottles TO THE RIM, litteraly, and closed the bottle caps FIRMLY. No leakage of course. Coming back to bottles a few months old, you will see filaments of SOMETHING floating around in the solution, and about an inch of space empty at the neck of the bottle, I always wondered how this could be. Must be the powder mixed in the water that bonds and takes up less space then when it is mixed with water.

 

[timor]

Usually I store D76 in such a bottles:
Those are for handling chemicals, can take 140 ml of fluid and it is for me almost perfect for one shot 1+1 dilution (140 +150 water) for 35 mm negative.

 

[xayraa33]

There is no guarantee that each envelope (or can in the old days) of D76 powder has the super exact ratios of the separate chemical powders that make up D76 as it comes out from the hopper to the envelope while at the factory.

I have done this many times through out these last 40 years. Usually I will spilt it in two parts to make 2 liters each and I never seen any appreciable difference in film development performance between separate batches of D76 concentrate versus when I did mix the whole envelope of D76 powder to make 4 liters.

Storing the unused powder can be a problem if you do not mix it after a short while, as it will oxidize and clump up even when stored in an airtight container.

 

[crawdiddy]

There is no guarantee that each envelope (or can in the old days) of D76 powder has the super exact ratios of the separate chemical powders that make up D76 as it comes out from the hopper to the envelope while at the factory.

I have done this many times through out these last 40 years. Usually I will spilt it in two parts to make 2 liters each and I never seen any appreciable difference in film development performance between separate batches of D76 concentrate versus when I did mix the whole envelope of D76 powder to make 4 liters.

Storing the unused powder can be a problem if you do not mix it after a short while, as it will oxidize and clump up even when stored in an airtight container.

I'll go along with xayraa33. I've split bags of powdered D76 and Dektol many times, and I've never had a problem.

 

[TimeShot]

All of you are intuitive. Storage life is the reason why I wanted to divide the developer and the reason I've been using liquid developer vs. powder.
Thank you

 

[Jockos]

I tried it without problem to. Same with powdered fixer; no problem. I understand that you could possibly get a problem, only that it's very unlikely.

 

[kokoshawnuff]

One funny thing I've noticed that sort of blew my mind though. I filled my bottles TO THE RIM, litteraly, and closed the bottle caps FIRMLY. No leakage of course. Coming back to bottles a few months old, you will see filaments of SOMETHING floating around in the solution, and about an inch of space empty at the neck of the bottle, I always wondered how this could be. Must be the powder mixed in the water that bonds and takes up less space then when it is mixed with water.

I don't know if this applies to you, but liquids "expand" as they are heated. So next time you mix a batch come back to it a day later and you should see some space even if you filled the bottle to the top. All you need are some glass marbles to fill the open space.

Getting back to the OP: I've split bags of d76 in two for half gallon mixtures without a problem. Also to consider for the future is the 1liter size that Kodak still makes if you want to continue using that size.

 

[Sparrow]

As timor said. Just mix the whole bag. Get a couple of 1liter dark glass bottles, fill it up to the top and close the lid TIGHTLY.

I've used D76 that is 8 months old, works great still (I admit, I don't test my negs with a densitometer though).

One funny thing I've noticed that sort of blew my mind though. I filled my bottles TO THE RIM, litteraly, and closed the bottle caps FIRMLY. No leakage of course. Coming back to bottles a few months old, you will see filaments of SOMETHING floating around in the solution, and about an inch of space empty at the neck of the bottle, I always wondered how this could be. Must be the powder mixed in the water that bonds and takes up less space then when it is mixed with water.

... it's simply gasses that are dissolved in the water, and CO2 as a product of oxidisation that come out over time,

 

[Sylvester]

I keep the whole 5 gallon pack in it's bag which I keep in a sealable plastic bag.
Each time I need a new liter of d76, I use a small electronic balance exact 1.0g and mix the powder with hot water so it dissolves faster.
Never had any problem. Just make sure to shake it before opening the bag so chemicals are well mixed. I think how you agitate influences more the negative than a gramm or two of difference... 😉

 

[timor]

All of you are intuitive. Storage life is the reason why I wanted to divide the developer and the reason I've been using liquid developer vs. powder.
Thank you

What do you mean by "intuitive" ? Dividing the powder mix, even using a good scale will be intuitive and seeking a good luck. Batch from batch you will have different composition of your developer. It may be good enough for casual shooting, but not for precise control of the neg density on consistent bases.
So, if you develop so little film that the shelf live of developer is a problem, stick rather to HC110, make working solution directly from the concentrate and you will be fine.
In any case $6.99 per gallon is not such a big risk,

 

[TimeShot]

What do you mean by "intuitive" ? Dividing the powder mix, even using a good scale will be intuitive and seeking a good luck. Batch from batch you will have different composition of your developer. It may be good enough for casual shooting, but not for precise control of the neg density on consistent bases.
So, if you develop so little film that the shelf live of developer is a problem, stick rather to HC110, make working solution directly from the concentrate and you will be fine.
In any case $6.99 per gallon is not such a big risk,

I stand corrected ! Everyone but you understood why I wanted to divide the package of D76.

 

[timor]

I stand corrected ! Everyone but you understood why I wanted to divide the package of D76.

Did you eat breakfast today, man ? I don't care for your motives. Dividing a ready to go package is just a naive move. This is not first time, that someone is coming up with this kind of self made problem and it seems, that you are looking here just for justification of your idea. Do what you want and be marry. Now I am standing corrected !

 

[mwoenv]

One gallon of stock will develop 15 rolls and will last 6 months in a tightly stoppered bottle with no air space so if you can use the developer in 6 months, just make up the gallon.

I make up one gallon and store it in four 1-liter plastic plain seltzer plastic bottles, squeezed to eliminate air at the top before tightly capping. Each liter will develop 4 rolls of film with reuse (I never used one-shot 1+1). I store the liters in a plastic tote which provides the darkness for the clear bottles. I've never had a problem using this approach. I also filter all my chemicals before each cycle of development using coffee filters.

I have made up 1 liter of stock at a time and never had a problem either. But I would run a little plastic mixing stick through the powder before spooning it out into a measuring cup on a balance; this helps to get the powder as uniform as possible. I stored the remaining powder in double plastic bags, closing the bags with twist ties to prevent air space in the bag. This worked, but since I easily develop 15 rolls every 6 months and the 1-liter bottles work well it's easier to make up the whole gallon.

The only chemical that went bad quickly when making up 1 liter at a time was Dektol paper developer.

 

[besk]

Dividing powders: I learned this method in a laboratory years ago. You need a hard, smooth and flat surface, and a straight edge knife.

Pour the powder onto the flat surface.
Mix it very well.
Make it into a cone shape.
Divide the pile into quarters using the straight edge knife
Put the opposite quarters together.
You have now divided the powder into halves.
Repeat the procedure on each half to further divide it into quarters.

 

[Jaans]

As the other posters have suggested - it is better not to divide powders. D76 is actually quite cheap and it is preferable to mix up a whole batch at once.

 

[ZoneIII]

I think the warnings to NOT divide D76 are exaggerated. I did it for years with no problems at all when I used D76 for certain films. However, my primary developer is HC110 for this very reason. I mix from concentrate. That said, I always divide Dektol and have never had a single problem . I'm a large format photographer and I tend to make large prints and even I don't need a full gallon of D76 stock solution. I mix 3 parts water to 1 part stock so a one gallon package of D76 would make four gallons of developer. One gallon fills up my most used 20x24" trays just fine.

If I used D76 regularly, I would mix the whole gallon as others have suggested but I only use it occasionally.

My procedure is to mix the powder and then divide it using a beam scale. I then seal the remainder in the original bag by rolling it up and then putting that in a Zip-Loc bat with air squeezed out and then putting that in yet another Zip-Loc bag, also with the air squeezed out. Sometimes I then put that in a glass jar. At one time I used a vacuum sealer for doing this sort of thing but I can no longer find the bags for my sealer.

My main point is that with just a little care and common sense, you can most definitely mix partial bags of powder despite the warnings you may hear to the contrary which, I suspect, are often made by people who have never tried it.

 

[Ronald M]

Buy a scale and mix your own. A liter at a time is no problem.

Will cost you around a $1.00 if you buy the chems right.

20 mule team borax is fine. Sodium sulfite from the chemistry store. Metal from Photographers Formulary. Already has 5 lifetime supply of hydroquinone. Works just like the package stuff.

 

[venchka]

This question comes up too often.
Newbies: Search before asking.
The final answer is:
1. Yes.
2. No.
3. Sometimes.
4. Maybe.
5. Flip a coin.

While D-76 was nice back in The Land Before Time, there are newer & one older alternatives that are capable of better performance. Some of the alternatives have a very long shelf life for the casual, infrequent, occasional user.

Wayne