do artists support each other?

[Out to Lunch]

Are you paraphrasing Johnny Rotten of the Sex Pistols?

''Don't know what I want but I know how to get it''....

 

[Santtu Määttänen]

I think you need to separate the Fine Art photographers from the Commercial or Editorial photographers though there will be some overlap.
My comments above were directed at the Commercial section. In my area there is a huge amount of co-operation among commercial photographers. They lend each other gear, share locations and even assist for reciprocal help. It's a lot like a farming community in that everyone is invested in everyone else's success.
In the Fine Art market there's quite a bit more back-biting and criticism. Though there are some photographers who travel and go out and shoot together I don't know any who actually BUY each other's work. They may swap prints from time to time but little money will change hands. As far as books are concerned, that's a whole other market and few Fine Art people that I know can afford to have books printed on spec. Even with todays technology and lower cost it's a challenge and a risk.

I purchase prints from time to time. And I purchase at least one new art piece per yer. For a real price that is. Bonus to that is swaps. And other fine art photographers have bought my work as well. It's not common, but not unheard of either. Besides here I know plenty of photographers and we share tips and try to be a easy going community. No backstabbing here. Not even when the grants come and go, some get them, some didn't but those who didn't don't generally take it onto those that did.

Purchasing art is the only real way you can make a difference to artists livelihood. If you like it, buy it. Usually art ain't that expensive (we're talking about living artists here, those who don't get invitations by big museums and galleries, those whose work don't go from hand to an other in auctions)..

 

[kuzano]

Etsy.com... the 'artsy craftsy' counterpart to eBay

Etsy.com... the 'artsy craftsy' counterpart to eBay

i see some prints for sale in the classifieds...it got me thinking...do we as photographers support each other or other artists/photographers?
i'm guessing not.
gear goes pretty quickly in the classifieds but that satisfies a different need for both parties, buyers and sellers.
we seem to have a hard enough time discussing photography here and i think a hard time parting with our cash as well.

Great auction site, LOTS of traffic, very negligible fee structure. Also consider a store front on ebay, using a very malleable hosting/html/template site like Use.com.

lots of arts and crafts type work on etsy. Have not looked at photography, but it's worth a look-see. Fixed pricing, and buyer checkout, the money takes 2 days to automatically transfer to my bank.

 

[rybolt]

Purchasing art is the only real way you can make a difference to artists livelihood. If you like it, buy it. Usually art ain't that expensive (we're talking about living artists here, those who don't get invitations by big museums and galleries, those whose work don't go from hand to an other in auctions)..

I can't disagree with this and I'm sure that collectives exist all over the world who encourage and support each other. My experience, here in the US, is that many, probably most, fine art photographers are also teachers either at the college level or in art schools. The old joke was "A Fine Art Photographer is a person with two Leicas and a spouse with a good job".

 

[kuzano]

i'd love to join a group, either online or offline that discusses photography as an art but the reality is i know nothing of art. i never studied it or read much about it. i know what i like but that carries little weight i would think.

Check out "Art History" classes at your local higher ed, or community college. One of my very good friends was an Art History Prof for his entire career, and told me the best entre in to Art and the skills of creativity and compostion is the study of Art History.

Photography as "art" is an integral result of Art History. Take some classes. If you can find some community ed classes they are generally short and nicely priced for most budgets.

Perhaps a section on this site for Art History relative to Photography???

 

[Calzone]

I can't disagree with this and I'm sure that collectives exist all over the world who encourage and support each other. My experience, here in the US, is that many, probably most, fine art photographers are also teachers either at the college level or in art schools. The old joke was "A Fine Art Photographer is a person with two Leicas and a spouse with a good job".

I have to disagree with you. Back in the 1970's when I was in art school I was told by my professor that in one year enough people graduate with MFA's to fill every teaching position available. There are not so many teaching jobs like you suggest.

Very few people are the "rock stars" that can actually become both famous and wealthy as artists. I would say most have day-jobs. Perhaps a few lucky ones have trust funds.

Even a Magnum photographer like Elliot Erwit did/does commercial photography for money.

Cal

 

[rybolt]

I have to disagree with you. Back in the 1970's when I was in art school I was told by my professor that in one year enough people graduate with MFA's to fill every teaching position available. There are not so many teaching jobs like you suggest.



Cal

You are correct. My statement was way too broad. There way more fine art photographers than there are teaching positions. I have many friends in the art community here in SW Ohio and though some of them teach, the majority do other things to make their living.

 

[Calzone]

You are correct. My statement was way too broad. There way more fine art photographers than there are teaching positions. I have many friends in the art community here in SW Ohio and though some of them teach, the majority do other things to make their living.

R,

Wish sharing photography via teaching was easier. Also my gal is an academic. Not an easy job for your friends who teach.

Thanks for your response.

Cal

 

[bsdunek]

i'd love to join a group, either online or offline that discusses photography as an art but the reality is i know nothing of art. i never studied it or read much about it. i know what i like but that carries little weight i would think.

I don't know where you're located, but I would invite you to join our group if you're nearby. Discussing art of all kinds is what we do best - usually over wine and snacks.

 

[unixrevolution]

i see some prints for sale in the classifieds...it got me thinking...do we as photographers support each other or other artists/photographers?
i'm guessing not.
gear goes pretty quickly in the classifieds but that satisfies a different need for both parties, buyers and sellers.
we seem to have a hard enough time discussing photography here and i think a hard time parting with our cash as well.

I don't have a place to display a lot of art, but I have made a decision since long ago that if I want decor, I will buy it from an artist I have met, or at least talked to, rather than the store. I want to support artists, definitely.

 

[rfaspen]

I don't have a place to display a lot of art, but I have made a decision since long ago that if I want decor, I will buy it from an artist I have met, or at least talked to, rather than the store. I want to support artists, definitely.

This. Big time.

 

[Roger Hicks]

People who create art, full time, are rarely those who can afford to buy it. Selling a picture for less than the cost of, say, a week's groceries is hardly worth the effort and most artists need the week's groceries more than they need an example of someone else's work. They also need the money to spend on producing their own work.

Of course there are a few exceptions, but mostly those who buy art are people who like art and can afford to buy it because they have well-paid jobs doing something else. Frances's most recent sale, for example, was to a lawyer's wife (though the lawyer was an enthusiastic photographer -- this was at Arles).

Cheers,

R.

 

[mfunnell]

Bought Dan's book

So did I, and at least two other books by RFF photographers. And I spruiked their wares, and I'm glad I did. I'm not so sure I'd like their work(s) on my wall. Though I guess it depends on the wall (and the work). But photos I like don't necessarily make decor I like.

For example (OK, a somewhat exaggerated one), I'm simultaneously able to believe that (a) Gurnica is Great Art, and (b) not want to look at it on my kitchen wall while I'm eating my Weet Bix at breakfast time.

Often the photos I like best should be kept in museums I can visit or books I can open - but not framed and on my wall.

...Mike

 

[airfrogusmc]

i see some prints for sale in the classifieds...it got me thinking...do we as photographers support each other or other artists/photographers?
i'm guessing not.
gear goes pretty quickly in the classifieds but that satisfies a different need for both parties, buyers and sellers.
we seem to have a hard enough time discussing photography here and i think a hard time parting with our cash as well.

My wife and I are first lovers of art and photography so I support fellow artists and friends by attending openings, having informal critiques several times a year and sometimes exchanging work and sometimes purchasing work from others so I would say in my circle of fellow creatives we support one another.

 

[airfrogusmc]

i'd love to join a group, either online or offline that discusses photography as an art but the reality is i know nothing of art. i never studied it or read much about it. i know what i like but that carries little weight i would think.

Hey Joe,
Learning about visual art has never been easier with all the info on the world side web. Having said that it still boils down to personal preference but the more you see and learn the more that preference can change. If you were able to find and join a really open group of other knowledgeable creative people that take a positive approach then there would be nothing more valuable then live critiques. The web is a mess the it comes to that kind of thing. All the so called experts and way to much negativity. If you lived closer I would invite you to one of our critiques. I have a circle of friends that includes one of my now retired college professors and other very talented artists and photographers. I love this quote by Adams and I see far to little of it on the web.
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit."-Ansel Adams

 

[MIkhail]

Hey Joe,
Learning about visual art has never been easier with all the info on the world side web. Having said that it still boils down to personal preference but the more you see and learn the more that preference can change. If you were able to find and join a really open group of other knowledgeable creative people that take a positive approach then there would be nothing more valuable then live critiques. The web is a mess the it comes to that kind of thing. All the so called experts and way to much negativity. If you lived closer I would invite you to one of our critiques. I have a circle of friends that includes one of my now retired college professors and other very talented artists and photographers. I love this quote by Adams and I see far to little of it on the web.
"No man has the right to dictate what other men should perceive, create or produce, but all should be encouraged to reveal themselves, their perceptions and emotions, and to build confidence in the creative spirit."-Ansel Adams

I too have several friends (who I met thru web initially and in person later) who's opinion of my "creations" are valuable to me.
However I would be very surprised if one of them start seriously "critiquing" me by picking my images apart ("don’t like the bokeh", "horizon is not straight", "what lens did you use?" and bull like that). Some amateurish critique that internet is full of. They can be agree with the concept, or not.
My point being- I would not go on large forums on random people looking for knowledge and education. Taste and feel for harmony is obtained in libraries and galleries of art. Classical painters are best teachers, in my opinion.

 

[Calzone]

I love art. I somehow acquired some vintage Bruce Davidson prints in trade bartering some surplus camera gear for the prints with an art dealer. He approached and solicited me BTW. I have the two images of children from the Welsh Mining series. BTW I happen to currently live a block away from where Bruce Davidson shot East 100th Street.

I also own some work that came my way fortuitously at inexpensive prices from friends that is much loved.

Mike above makes a great point. I have my friend's work museum framed and see it every day. These images I love seeing every day and have become part of my life. Not all art would I want in my face.

My friend Joe gave me his F5, and we worked out a deal where I will give him some prints as payment in lew of cash. For me it is easier and more economical to print the money, and I can afford to be generous to a friend who will love and live with the images.

Anyways having art in one's life is mucho important to me.

Cal

 

[airfrogusmc]

I too have several friends (who I met thru web initially and in person later) who's opinion of my "creations" are valuable to me.
However I would be very surprised if one of them start seriously "critiquing" me by picking my images apart ("don’t like the bokeh", "horizon is not straight", "what lens did you use?" and bull like that). Some amateurish critique that internet is full of. They can be agree with the concept, or not.
My point being- I would not go on large forums on random people looking for knowledge and education. Taste and feel for harmony is obtained in libraries and galleries of art. Classical painters are best teachers, in my opinion.

Hi Mikhail,
Our critics are usually about content, how the work fits into the other work and if there is any of the creator in the work and less about the mechanics. Most in our group are beyond f/stops and bokeh and the critiques are usually positive and not some so called authority giving so called brutally honest critiques (ha ha) which are usually more about their own ego and how they would shoot it instead of excepting what it actually is. Art is a great place to get inspiration from and I totally agree about looking at classic painters work. Trips to museums and galleries can be great learning experiences.

 

[airfrogusmc]

I love art. I somehow acquired some vintage Bruce Davidson prints in trade bartering some surplus camera gear for the prints with an art dealer. He approached and solicited me BTW. I have the two images of children from the Welsh Mining series. BTW I happen to currently live a block away from where Bruce Davidson shot East 100th Street.

I also own some work that came my way fortuitously at inexpensive prices from friends that is much loved.

Mike above makes a great point. I have my friend's work museum framed and see it every day. These images I love seeing every day and have become part of my life. Not all art would I want in my face.

My friend Joe gave me his F5, and we worked out a deal where I will give him some prints as payment in lew of cash. For me it is easier and more economical to print the money, and I can afford to be generous to a friend who will love and live with the images.

Anyways having art in one's life is mucho important to me.

Cal

Love Davidsons work. You are very lucky. What would life be without art? For me not near as good.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Back to the topic of buying prints just for the reason of supporting artist by another artist.

To me every good meal is art work and pottery is the art at some point.
Do people who works in restaurants go and buy meals in another restaurants for reason of support of another cooking artists? Even if they don't like this food?
Or if it is pottery exhibition of local artists, do they buy from each other? Even if they don't like this artist pottery?
Heck, even good programming is the art, do programmers support each others by buying sw just because they support each other? Even if they don't need this program?

Did impressionists purchased each other painting? Last time I was in museum it was about rich Russian (before revolution) merchandisers and manufacturers buying French and local impressionists paintings and it is recognized as support.