Do I Need To Worry About Shutter Activations In a Used M?

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wgerrard

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Being in the market for an M2, I've been perusing the threads here. A number of posts recommend a new body, contending that an M2's shutter is going to have had many more activations.

Is that a legitimate concern? Is a busted shutter fixable? At what cost?

(Part of me knows the age of a camera bears no direct relation to the number of shutter activations. The other part knows that a 50 year old camera has had thirty more years of opportunities for shutter wear than a 20 year old camera.)
 
wgerrard said:
Being in the market for an M2, I've been perusing the threads here. A number of posts recommend a new body, contending that an M2's shutter is going to have had many more activations.

Is that a legitimate concern? Is a busted shutter fixable? At what cost?

(Part of me knows the age of a camera bears no direct relation to the number of shutter activations. The other part knows that a 50 year old camera has had thirty more years of opportunities for shutter wear than a 20 year old camera.)
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Dear Bill,

That's it, really.

Put it this way. A truly busted shutter is improbable to vanishing point. Most M2s will work 'as is', or after a bit of exercise to free up gummy shutters and viewfinder masks. A few may require cleaning. The only ones that are truly busted won't work from day one. If I were you I really wouldn't worry about the likelihood of a shutter that works; then breaks; then costs a fortune to repair.

If you were nearer I'd lend you an M2.

Cheers,

R.
 
I've read that the Leica shutter is good for 400,000 cycles. At my rate of film consumption I should get around 200 years out of my M6 I bought new, but then there's the M3 to wear out also. Joe
 
Pickett Wilson said:
I think 400,000 may be a bit optimistic! But, that's 11,000 or so rolls of film, so few will actually find out!
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Might not be. Nikon claims that its pro bodies are good for 250,000 shots. I think the M shutter is probably more robust than the shutters in the modern 250,000 nikons like the F4 and F5.
 
Unless the camera belonged to a working photographer who put many rolls through it per day most of these cameras probably saw no more than maybe a few hundred rolls total in its lifetime. Most of the time it spent in a drawer so you should not worry about it.

I would however if it has been stored away have it CLA'd..
 
Youxin CLA'd my M2, and it is smooth as butter. It is an early button rewind model.

Performing the CLA on a camera is probably more relevant than counting actuations. The only reason everyone cites it on a Digital is because the camera keeps track of the number.
 
If Youxin has it, it is in great shape and will outlast us all.

My main camera is even older, he put in a new shutter curtain.
 
wgerrard said:
Thanks all. I'm looking to buy a CLA'd M2 from Youxin Ye, who is away from home for a while.
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I was low bidder recently on an M3 from him on the auction site at an exceptionally reasonable price. He advertised it as a beater user and it is nothing short of fine. Fully functional and frankly I think he was too critical on the condition issues.

For the right price I'd say go for it.
 
There is no real reason to be concerned about the amount of use an M Leica has had. The only concern is for the amount of abuse. Which can happen to a body of all ages.
 
Although I can't quote the source I'm sure I read that 800,000 cycles was possible from the early models (M1-4).

Best,

normclarke.
 
payasam said:
Good luck, Bill.
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Thanks.

I've accumulated more equipment than I need. My rationalization is that I did it deliberately to see what focal lengths I really like. In any case, it looks like I spend most of my time with a 35 and a 50. I've got a rather nice old Elmar 90/4 collapsible, too. Hence, the M2 quest. If it works out, I may even, gasp, sell some stuff.
 
The "weakest" spot on the M's (M2/M3/M4 etc) tends to be either the straps holding the shutter blinds or the springs inside the shutter drum. However, unless the camera has been severely waterlogged at some time, they tend to work for a long time.
The cloth shutter on the M is derived from the screw-mount Leicas and is a proven design and can take a lot of use!
Occasionally you can find early M2's M3's with dried out shutter curtains (they go stiff and brittle and starts "flaking" the rubberized coating). Easily spotted and it is not a big deal to replace ($150-$200 CLA).
Vancouver is a big cruise ship terminal and pre-digital the cameras used on these ships were Leica's - mostly M4-2/M4P's (fundamentally the same mechanism as a M2/M3). These cameras would go through 250-300 000 shots in a season and rarely fail.
Biggest problem is cameras that has left inactive for extended period and gummed up. If your M2 is CLA'd now - you should get 10-20 years of use out of it - so go for it.
A couple of my M2's have survived in my hands for 40+ years - and a lot of film! I have had to replace the odd shutter - usually from managing to burn a hole in them - but that was my fault - not the cameras.
Rarely have I had a rangefinder go off - at least not without severe traume inflicted on the camera.
M's are very rugged, but like any mechanical contraption, things can go "bump" in the night - but I have had more problems with M6's and MP's than with M2's and M3's. The "electronics" in the later ones are usually the culprit - but even then, as long as you dont use the M7, they usually "morph" into M4P's.
A M2 with the 35/50 combo is almost perfect (perfection is 2 M2's - one with the 35, the other with the 50 - and the 90 in the pocket).
 
wgerrard said:
Thanks.

I've accumulated more equipment than I need. My rationalization is that I did it deliberately to see what focal lengths I really like. In any case, it looks like I spend most of my time with a 35 and a 50. I've got a rather nice old Elmar 90/4 collapsible, too. Hence, the M2 quest. If it works out, I may even, gasp, sell some stuff.
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Bill,

There is something about having one or two cameras that will outlast you but cutting back other than that. I have to say that the Leica and Nikon rangefinders are made to last forever. Leicas need some working when they sit too long, but mostly they come back close to spec. I used to worry about this failing and that and when I was making money for the shoot I had backups. But I have to say, carrying a single camera that you can count on really is all you need.

The M2 is one of those cameras that will outlast my sons sons.

B2 (;->
 
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