Do we ever leave the theatre?

I have just been given a book called "The crisis of the Real"-writings on photography by Andy Grundberg who wrote many essays as art critic for the New York Times. This is published by Aperture Foundation. You might find it of interest or at least enjoy the writing. I just can't get into much art criticism but I got stuck into this collection and really enjoy it.
 
Now I discovered this thread (thanks Rob!). I find the discussion very interesting but also quite ambiguous. I think that we can fall back in the old opposition subjectivity-objectivity. In fact, in my opinion the problem is not so much to define reality (more or less global) and understand how much of us (you, me) there is in it. It is 'we' who construct reality, that part of reality that falls to us and understands us, and the reality we build today is only expanded geographically and in depth. Reality has now blurred boundaries: as said fifty years ago Guy Debord in 'The Society of the Spectacle', the reality is removed as its representation. Why do you want to look today to recognize the boundaries that have been broken?
 
luiman said:
Now I discovered this thread (thanks Rob!). I find the discussion very interesting but also quite ambiguous. I think that we can fall back in the old opposition subjectivity-objectivity. In fact, in my opinion the problem is not so much to define reality (more or less global) and understand how much of us (you, me) there is in it. It is 'we' who construct reality, that part of reality that falls to us and understands us, and the reality we build today is only expanded geographically and in depth. Reality has now blurred boundaries: as said fifty years ago Guy Debord in 'The Society of the Spectacle', the reality is removed as its representation. Why do you want to look today to recognize the boundaries that have been broken?
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for a photographer, terms like reality or truth are important. we deal with simulations all the time, it's what we do. a photograph is not a copy of 'reality', but an image that looks like a copy of 'reality' to us. or something along those lines.
for the german-speaking folks I can recommend this here book: http://www.amazon.de/Bilder-Photographie-photographischer-Metaphern-suhrkamp/dp/3518124617
 
ferider said:
Do we ever leave the theatre?

The real question is if we are playing or watching the play. Funny thing is, the closer you watch, the more you change the play (Einstein) and the more fuzzy it becomes (Heisenberg). Provided there is anybody in the theater, of course - which, from the outside of the theater, you'll never know for sure (Schroedinger).

Food for thought ? 🙂
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ROFL 😀 , you've forgotten that you might be in different theaters at the same time but never can tell in which one...
 
I've always been intrigued by alternate realities, parallel universes and other such mind-bending concepts. It probably all started when I was a kid reading Superman comics that introduced the bizarro world.

The movies Jacob's Ladder and Akira Kurosawa's Rashomon come to mind. For more of a fantasy based reality, the books Weaveworld by Clive Barker and The Talisman by Stephen King. There's a book or story by HP Lovecraft, but I can't recall the title.
 
An interesting question, and one that is very hard to answer.

What we perceive as 'reality', we take in through our senses, and interpret it based on what we know. As such, our perception of reality is some kind of simulation - the construct of what we have learnt and perceived. In essence, this is not much different from how an intelligent robot is orienting itself in the physical world - only a lot more complex.

This has a number of surprising consequences. To describe them would go too far, but suffice to say you ought to read some of Paul Watzlawick's books, especially 'How real is real' (or in German 'Wie wirklich ist die Wirklichkeit').

About the author:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watzlawick (English)
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Watzlawick (German)

Bibliography:
http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL753328A/Paul_Watzlawick
 
the line is certainly blurry. i suspect questions of control and media might lend insight.

there is a world of consequences though, that appears not like any theatre i have seen.
 
Simon, watch some Alain Resnais films. Start with Last Year at Marienbad. That will mess with your sense of what's real and what's not. "Last year, you were here, or maybe you weren't, with a man who is your husband or he's not... and you left with me or you didn't." The theater is in our heads. Or, it's not. Or, our heads are in the theater, or maybe they aren't....
 
OMG! I just saw the movie that EXACTLY describes this idea - American Splendor!

From the movie:
Am I a guy who writes about himself...

in a comic book?

Or am I just a character in that book?

If I die, will that character keep going?
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I've been wanting to see the movie since Harvey Pekar's death a few months ago. I remember the comic - drawn by Crumb, back in the 70-80s. Finally saw it. It's great.
 
It's a god-awful small affair
To the girl with the mousy hair
But her mummy is yelling, "No!"
And her daddy has told her to go
But her friend is nowhere to be seen
Now she walks through her sunken dream
To the seat with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
For she's lived it ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on

Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?

It's on America's tortured brow
That Mickey Mouse has grown up a cow
Now the workers have struck for fame
Because Lennon's on sale again
See the mice in their million hordes
From Ibeza to the Norfolk Broads
Rule Britannia is out of bounds
To my mother, my dog, and clowns
But the film is a saddening bore
Because I wrote it ten times or more
It's about to be writ again
As I ask you to focus on

Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?
 
Apparently, we can leave the theater, but only with difficulty. Went to movies with my wife this evening. When the picture was over, I made a quick stop at the men's room. When I emerged, my wife was standing in front of the door to another of the theaters in the multiplex. We stepped in and saw a second film. At the end of the second, I though we'd had fun worth repeating. This time, the Mrs. said she was hungry so we did leave the theater, though it might only be temporary.
 
We cant tell, so we have to make something up.

We cant tell, so we have to make something up.

Goedel taught us that there is not way for us to tell since a system is inherently unable to make any assertions about itself.
However, most of us are pretty social beings, and would be useful for our well being to choose a reality that has some reasonable overlap with the people right next to us.
 
Media controlling our fantasy world? I find that a really good way of getting someones attention is to ask if them whether the screen they are sitting in front of is operating them or whether they are operating it because from where I am sitting it looks like it is operating them. Especially useful for ensuring that call centre staff have a nice day, not least the TV licensing authority in the UK 😀
 
Along the lines of other recommendation , anything connected to semiology (Barthes - Camera Lucida and The empire of signs deal with theatre , movies like Matrix , Waking Life , 1984 , V for vendetta) , zen books ( suzuki , herrigel's zen in the art of archery also reads like it was a photography manual , but the good kind) also go along this notion. Dunno , Zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance and the Lila : An inquiry into morals by Pirsig also deal with the concept od metalanguage , madness , breaking the cultural frames . The pranks Banksy pulls off are also fun .

It's a really interesting topic for me , kinda like brain gymnastics.
 
An interesting concept and discussion. I would recommend "The Truman Show" as an exploration of how media (especially Western mass media) may influence behaviour.

Watch any so-called reality TV show (if you can do so and retain your sanity). What are they promulgating as "reality" in these shows? Certainly not the kind of reality my consciousness recognizes.

I heartily concur with "Blow Up" - an amazing film and probably my favourite movie of all time - certainly one I have watched many times. In fact any of Antonioni's films deal with internal realities and their relationships with external stimuli. Try "The Passenger" (AKA "Occupation: Reporter") also.

Also, as you are based in Berlin, I'd recommend Wenders' "Wings of Desire". There is much in this film dealing with the perception of role playing. And of course "Apocalypse Now" just because it's a great film.
 
I can not accept the idea of a theater and reality dichotomy. The model of that model is creating a narrative in it self. Endlessly.

Me? I recommend the film Big Lebowski.

/H

BiancaJagger_300dpi.jpg

Photo by Jeff Bridges.
Source:http://www.likeyou.com/en/node/19859
 
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