Do you think the M8 is making RF cameras more Popular?

Do you think the M8 is making RF cameras more Popular?

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I got an excellent price on my M6TTL a few weeks ago, but then prices in the UK were quite a bit higher in the UK than on the Continent. Lenses seem to be going stratospheric.
 
Yes.

I'm a digital-only photographer - I only took up photography 3 years ago, and have no interest whatsoever in film.

My first camera was a Canon 10D but after a while I wanted something simpler and less intrusive, and bought an Epson R-D1. I would've preferred (and still do) an SLR version of the R-D1 but such a beast doesn't exist - I don't suppose anyone will ever make a small, manual digital SLR.

I wonder how many R-D1/M8 users, like me, bought the camera not because it's a rangefinder but for its manual controls and simplicity?
 
I have to admit, that as a young 'un (I'm 21) I'd never heard of rangefinders until I read a review of the M8. Of course I can't afford one, but it certainly sparked my interest in them. I think the fact that it was covered quite extensively in a lot of digital camera outlets (magazines, websites etc) which people new to digital photography read will have helped the overall awareness of the rangefinder market.

And old stuff is always more fun...
 
The M8's introduction has drawn some attention to the rangefinder camera design. But it will make little perceptible impact on the photography market for three reasons.

First, the M8's primary appeal is to those who have already been using M mount rangefinder cameras and have an investment in M lenses. This is the "choir" that has long enjoyed this style of photography. While there are some young people drawn to rangefinders most of these folks (like me) are hardly young and, as such, will do nothing to expand the generational appeal of these cameras. Let's face it; a lot of the M8 shutter clicks are aimed at grandchildren and twilight travel snapshots.

Second, as "owenreading"s note illustrates, the M8's cost puts it far out of the reach of most young enthusiasts. There just aren't many 20-something, 30-something, or even 40-something folks who have the financial resources and desire to buy into a rangefinder camera system.

Third, and most significantly, we're talking about a camera that's analogous to a fountain pen. Yes it has some wonderful characteristics and can, in skilled hands, help to create wonderful images. But, like the fountain pen, it's an instrument with a limited range of application and, strictly speaking, a very poor value compared to today's digital cameras.

The appearance of a sub-$1,000 digital rangefinder camera could have a noticeable (although still small) impact on the digital camera landscape. But the market for "fountain pens" is far, far too small to justify the risk of manufacturing investment.
 
I never would have believed it, but yes indeed, the M8 has definitely made RF photography more popular.

Why do I believe this?

Because I have sold about six sets of Voigtlander lenses to new M8 owners

who had NEVER owned a rangefinder before!

damn. I was never expecting that !

Stephen
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It sounds as though, with the M8, Leica has rediscovered its core customer base -- well-to-do people with plenty of money and style, who purchase the camera because it is "the best" but who otherwise don't know much about photography. Doctors, lawyers, those who take $300 bottles of wine quite seriously. These folks want and can afford digital, and no longer want to deal with the hassle of film.
 
Ken Tanaka said:
First, the M8's primary appeal is to those who have already been using M mount rangefinder cameras and have an investment in M lenses. This is the "choir" that has long enjoyed this style of photography. While there are some young people drawn to rangefinders most of these folks (like me) are hardly young and, as such, will do nothing to expand the generational appeal of these cameras. Let's face it; a lot of the M8 shutter clicks are aimed at grandchildren and twilight travel snapshots.
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I hadn't used a Leica in years and owned no Leica lenses. But when Leica made a digital RF that could produce images in the same league as the Canon 1 series DSLR's I was using I jumped on it. It's great getting back to the RF finder, small size and straight forward interface of the M. Leica is selling everything it can produce after years of barely surviving. I'd say the Leica brand cultists are only a small segment of M8 buyers. As a matter of fact a lot of the 'true believers' seem to hate the M8 as it's not a 'real' Leica and they won't be able to hand it down to thier grandchildren.
 
Yes. In a spanish photo forum (www.ojodigital.com) there wasn´t any information about RF cameras. In september 2006 I started a thread about the M8 and now it´s still alive with 1117 post and 49604 views. Some people is interested in the M8 and even bouhgt it, and others are interested in film RF cameras.
 
I think Ken's right. Let's not forget that a DSLR is a much more flexible tool than any rangefinder. Really good zoom lenses have made all the difference in the world. In the fifties and sixties and until fairly recently we used rangefinders for all sorts of things because available zoom lenses were less than useless for serious work. That's not the case any more. A good zoom still will give you a bit of barrel distortion at minimum and a bit of pincushion distortion at maximum, but if the minor distortion is a problem it's easily fixable in Photoshop.

Yes, prime lenses for the Leica and other rangefinders are marvelous instruments, but if you're going to do, say, a wedding or a dance class with a rangefinder you're going to end up with several bodies, each mounted with its own lens to give you a range of focal lengths. You simply won't have time to switch back and forth between the bag full of lenses hanging at your side. The DSLR with a fast zoom lens is much easier to carry around and much more responsive as you adapt your shooting to the changing scenes around you.

The place the rangefinder shines is on the street. The Leica always has been associated with street photography, beginning with HCB's earliest efforts. If you've ever tried street photography with a DSLR you'll know why that's true.

I think we're seeing a rush to digital rangefinders by two kinds of people -- old timers like me, who've used rangefinders for decades and find that having a rangefinder in hand again is like re-living a first love, and people of all ages who want to do street photography with an unobtrusive instrument that doesn't have the lags, inaccuracies, and disappointing quality of a point-and-shoot.

It looks as if there's a growing market for digital rangefinders right now, but I think it'll stabilize in the not too distant future. I also think we'll see quite a few used digital rangefinders on the market as the people who bought them as a novelty find that it takes a bit of practice, study, and work to do good photography with a rangefinder, and go back to point-and-shoots.
 
I haven't really been following the sale of the M8 or other rangefinder cameras but i think that this forum is really the only place where i could say people are in to the field of RF and know exactly what it is. I have never spoken to a person other then on this forum and photogs that shoot for a living that actually know what a RF is. I got in to Leica through a friend that has been using RF's for many years. Most people are into "Bigger is better" Canon/Nikon stuff and " How many megapixels is your camera?" To prove my point, my family had a large gathering of friends at their home, i decided to see with which cam i would get more response. My Canon 5D wins hands down. I took out my M6 and after every shot people would ask to see the photo on screen. I would say that this is B+W Film and the look of dissapointment would come over them, as if thinking "Whats wrong with you?".
 
I suspect that my rangefinder background is common. My experience with rangefinder photography pre-dates the M8 but does not reach as far back as Hank's or Russell'. I bought an M7 and three M lenses several years ago with the basic objectives of (a) keeping my hand in the 35mm film genre, and (b) keeping touch with photography's basic craft techniques by using a well-made-but-primitive camera. The M7 filled the bill.

But the PGR (pain-to-gain ratio) of 35mm film soon exceeded 1.5 and I found myself using the M7 less. But knowing a "digital M" was around the corner my lenses and I waited patiently for it. The M8 continues to fulfill my original (b) objective above.

I think Russell's remarks are very much on-target to this topic. Since Leica now owns the digital rangefinder niche I suspect that demand will keep them busy for a while, but certainly in exchange for their dwindling film camera business.

I also think that "Tuolumne" will likely get his wish for a used M8 before long, and probably at a substantial discount to its original price, for some of the reasons that Russell suggested.

Whether or not the M is still king of the unobtrusive "street" camera, as Russell and others have suggested, is off-topic to this thread. So I don't want to hijack the topic. But it's worth debating sometime and someplace.
 
Alm3000 said:
I haven't really been following the sale of the M8 or other rangefinder cameras but i think that this forum is really the only place where i could say people are in to the field of RF and know exactly what it is. I have never spoken to a person other then on this forum and photogs that shoot for a living that actually know what a RF is. I got in to Leica through a friend that has been using RF's for many years. Most people are into "Bigger is better" Canon/Nikon stuff and " How many megapixels is your camera?" To prove my point, my family had a large gathering of friends at their home, i decided to see with which cam i would get more response. My Canon 5D wins hands down. I took out my M6 and after every shot people would ask to see the photo on screen. I would say that this is B+W Film and the look of dissapointment would come over them, as if thinking "Whats wrong with you?".
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I had a similar experience last weekend with my M6. I was at a party and someone came up to me and asked to see the picture. I told them that it was a film camera and they walked away disappointed.

My Nikon DSLR got me into photography but after looking at hundreds of images I realized that I didn't want A) a computer to do everything for me & produce a highly digitized image B) a camera that I could carelessly take 100 pictures of the same thing and then sort through when I uploaded the pictures C) something more compact and reliable (no batteries to die while I'm in a park, backpacking through Guatemala).

I was introduced to RF cameras because I came across the M8 in a photo mag. It was super expensive and I wanted to know why the price tag was so high. After doing some research, which was during the debut of the camera, I found out that it had a lot of problems and I didn't think much of Leica. After a year with the DSLR I realized that I wanted to go back to film and when I found out the M6/MP were 100% mechanical, save for the light meter, I realized that's what I wanted. I've had my M6 for a little over a month and a half and it's been wonderful. I've thought about the M8 but it's too much like my DSLR. Another computer to do everything. It thinks for you and maybe that's good for professionals and journalists who need the camera to calibrate itself on the fly w/ instant feedback.

I use mine for travel& leisure. It's perfect. All I need now is for the market to calm down so I can get myself a 90mm 'cron.
 
Talus said:
I've thought about the M8 but it's too much like my DSLR. Another computer to do everything. It thinks for you and maybe that's good for professionals and journalists who need the camera to calibrate itself on the fly w/ instant feedback.
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The M8 is nothing like a DSLR. It dosn't do any thinking.

Everything except Av is done manually. It's kinda like digital M7. Nothing fancy. Only the essentials.

Something I like to do with my M8 is pretend it's a film camera. Turn off the preview option. Go out and shoot, only looking at my images afer the SD Card is full and they've been downloaded to my computer.

It gives me the waiting/delay factor of film, making my experience more enjoyable.
 
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I'd be surprised if the number of people buying the M8 as a very first RF are anywhere near significant..

Seems to me the M8 is more like a step-up camera for already M owners..
 
When Voigtlander have a sub £500 digital model then you can argue that Rangefinders with digital backs are becoming popular but for now the Leica M8 is the only digital rangefinder arround and that cannot drive customers to the format as it's too expensive for most.
 
I have noticed that there are a few people, who having bought an M8, tend to move away from 35mm film ... but are still smitten by the quality you can get from medium and large format film. If image quality is paramount it makes sense to use a format that can give you what you want and a Mamiya ... Bronica etc, may be the perfect compliment to the M8. I suspect that when I have exhausted my current supply of 35mm film I will spend more time shooting with my budget MF rangefinders and ultimately a few of my 35mm cameras may be in danger of being sold to fund a really good MF camera and some quality lenses!

Does this make sense? :)
 
Rangefinders are not going to displace SLR's in any area of photography. However having a digital RF will preserve and grow the niche that RF occupies. Many will use them in conjunction with SLR's and some will use them exclusively.

Some photographers wouldn't think of working without a zoom for others a couple of primes fit the bill. I did 95% of my commercial work in the last 3 years with a Canon 1Ds, a 35/1.4 L and a 135/2 L with Af off most of the time -there wasn't any situation where I wish I'd had a zoom. But I was shooting with strobes in controlled environments. Replacing the Canon with an M8 was just a matter of ergonomic preference.
 
I think we're missing the point of this thread. I realize that SLR's rule as far as popularity. That's a given. I think the M8 has done a lot to raise photographers awareness to the RF.
 
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