martin s
Well-known
This is the, well, beginning of a documentary. Now I really don't know what else to do, but it's obviously not finished. I _need the criticism, and now that we all talked about how to critique, I thought it's worth giving this section another try.
Le Vrai Rdu already edited a version for me, and I know what's lacking so far - the story, a good portrait and probably an ending and a beginning. The final essay should be around 15 images, so the 11 posted here will eventually be reduced to maybe 8 or less.
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
#9
#10
#11
I don't need a pat on the back, confirmation or criticism wrapped in compliments. I won't get defensive, insult you or respond in all caps.
Feel free to critique single images, all the images at once or the 'story' itself. The Flickr Set is here, also - I have 3 more stories on hold, basically 30-50% finished. I want to post those, too, in the next few weeks.
martin
Le Vrai Rdu already edited a version for me, and I know what's lacking so far - the story, a good portrait and probably an ending and a beginning. The final essay should be around 15 images, so the 11 posted here will eventually be reduced to maybe 8 or less.
#1
#2
#3
#4
#5
#6
#7
#8
#9
#10
#11
I don't need a pat on the back, confirmation or criticism wrapped in compliments. I won't get defensive, insult you or respond in all caps.
Feel free to critique single images, all the images at once or the 'story' itself. The Flickr Set is here, also - I have 3 more stories on hold, basically 30-50% finished. I want to post those, too, in the next few weeks.
martin
sanmich
Veteran
Hi Martin
generally, this is good stuff, on a dufficult subject (not "exotic")
I don't see much in #1 and #4
Let's categorize:
You have good shots of pianos,
you have good shots of the man repairing pianos
I would like to see more of the man going to work, eating, calling on the phone etc..
Do you know the famous E. Smith "the country doctor" essay?
One last thing: it may be only me (I'm kinda square) but systematically tilting horizons doesn't make it for me. You have good shots with it, but I would carefully use this technique. In my eyes, it turns to a Gimmick when it's not fully justified.
BTW: Is this an ordered job? what will be the output?
generally, this is good stuff, on a dufficult subject (not "exotic")
I don't see much in #1 and #4
Let's categorize:
You have good shots of pianos,
you have good shots of the man repairing pianos
I would like to see more of the man going to work, eating, calling on the phone etc..
Do you know the famous E. Smith "the country doctor" essay?
One last thing: it may be only me (I'm kinda square) but systematically tilting horizons doesn't make it for me. You have good shots with it, but I would carefully use this technique. In my eyes, it turns to a Gimmick when it's not fully justified.
BTW: Is this an ordered job? what will be the output?
Xax
Established
Hey, here are a few of my initial thoughs, more like gut feelings than well though criticism. Maybe you can get something out of it.
It seems like for a documentary of 15 pictures the 11 pictured here mostly are "setup" or what they would call in movies "mood shots", "b-roll" or "establishing shots"
I'd want to see the person doing that more. I'd want to see a customer or two maybe. I'd want to see the building maybe. I'd like to see more variation in light, maybe he's still working nights? Personal life?
I think that the subject is hard to photograph I guess since there does not seem to be anything extraordinary. Thus I think the whole spectrum needs to be broader.
Hope it helped you and as said those are just a few initial gut thoughts.
It seems like for a documentary of 15 pictures the 11 pictured here mostly are "setup" or what they would call in movies "mood shots", "b-roll" or "establishing shots"
I'd want to see the person doing that more. I'd want to see a customer or two maybe. I'd want to see the building maybe. I'd like to see more variation in light, maybe he's still working nights? Personal life?
I think that the subject is hard to photograph I guess since there does not seem to be anything extraordinary. Thus I think the whole spectrum needs to be broader.
Hope it helped you and as said those are just a few initial gut thoughts.
morback
Martin N. Hinze
Hi Martin, I think this is an interesting subject and I would be curious to see the end-result.
Here is how I would go about it.
I would first choose my subject: am I following a specific repairman, a piano or that particular shop?
If I were to follow a repairman I would follow him from breakfast until dinner. If he allows you to shoot at home it could be a beautiful way to show the whole spectrum of that person. Is he a piano-nut or is it just a job? Is that job satisfying him or is he dreaming of better places at breakfast, lunch and dinner?
Here I would have a portrait of course and different shots where he is the focal point. How do his hands look like? What are his facial expressions when he is concentrated, when he tunes the piano? Pianos and the shop would only appear as accessories and settings.
Were I to follow a specific piano I would start from the owner, follow the moving & trucking, repairing (of course) and the way back. The owner and repairmen could be anonymous all the way (no faces, only body parts) but the piano would get detailed shots showing its character.
If I follow the life of the shop I would be there before they open until after they close and show who comes and goes, who works there, the clients, the tools, maybe a little bit of the neighborhood. This would be much broader, not one things or person would get more attention than another.
Right now it feels like a cross between shop (1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9) and repairman (2,6,9,10,11).
The short answer is, right now I'm not sure what you're trying to show me.
I hope this helps somewhat.
m.
p.s: see if you can get some more dramatic light in there, or do some dramatic post-processing (if it suits your story!).
Here is how I would go about it.
I would first choose my subject: am I following a specific repairman, a piano or that particular shop?
If I were to follow a repairman I would follow him from breakfast until dinner. If he allows you to shoot at home it could be a beautiful way to show the whole spectrum of that person. Is he a piano-nut or is it just a job? Is that job satisfying him or is he dreaming of better places at breakfast, lunch and dinner?
Here I would have a portrait of course and different shots where he is the focal point. How do his hands look like? What are his facial expressions when he is concentrated, when he tunes the piano? Pianos and the shop would only appear as accessories and settings.
Were I to follow a specific piano I would start from the owner, follow the moving & trucking, repairing (of course) and the way back. The owner and repairmen could be anonymous all the way (no faces, only body parts) but the piano would get detailed shots showing its character.
If I follow the life of the shop I would be there before they open until after they close and show who comes and goes, who works there, the clients, the tools, maybe a little bit of the neighborhood. This would be much broader, not one things or person would get more attention than another.
Right now it feels like a cross between shop (1,2,3,4,5,6,8,9) and repairman (2,6,9,10,11).
The short answer is, right now I'm not sure what you're trying to show me.
I hope this helps somewhat.
m.
p.s: see if you can get some more dramatic light in there, or do some dramatic post-processing (if it suits your story!).
I like the shots technically, but if I was an editor I would want the photos to tell more of a coherent story.
Think of it as a movie storyboard. Show clearly the process of what's happening. The tools, the men using the tools.
Before and after photos of damaged and repaired pianos would also be interesting.
Maybe show a musician happily playing a newly repaired piano, or the piano back in the concert hall or other venue.
Think of it as a movie storyboard. Show clearly the process of what's happening. The tools, the men using the tools.
Before and after photos of damaged and repaired pianos would also be interesting.
Maybe show a musician happily playing a newly repaired piano, or the piano back in the concert hall or other venue.
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Looks very nice so far. I would include a direct but casual portrait of the man.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Martin,
I'm always hesitant about 'work in progress' (especially my own). I wonder how this would work as a massive wall of pictures, say 20 pics (5 prints wide x 4 prints high), each pic at least 30x40cm. Match them purely on shapes, not on content; don't try to tell a story in the conventional storyboard style. There are many ways to run an exhibition: look for the picture of the Tony Armstrong exhibition (about picture 13) in http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/arles 2009.html. Not what I'm recommending but a different way of looking at exhibitions.
I like both the technical quality and the theme: all you need (all! hah!) is a coherent presentation.
Cheers,
R.
I'm always hesitant about 'work in progress' (especially my own). I wonder how this would work as a massive wall of pictures, say 20 pics (5 prints wide x 4 prints high), each pic at least 30x40cm. Match them purely on shapes, not on content; don't try to tell a story in the conventional storyboard style. There are many ways to run an exhibition: look for the picture of the Tony Armstrong exhibition (about picture 13) in http://www.rogerandfrances.com/photoschool/arles 2009.html. Not what I'm recommending but a different way of looking at exhibitions.
I like both the technical quality and the theme: all you need (all! hah!) is a coherent presentation.
Cheers,
R.
user237428934
User deletion pending
Piano repair man is a nice topic. In the pictures it's not so clear where we are. Is it the shop of the repair man? I think so. How do the pianos get there? A customer would be nice too.
morback wrote a lot of good points and I don't want to repeat everything.
morback wrote a lot of good points and I don't want to repeat everything.
cweg
Well-known
#1 I can't see that it's a piano workshop. The composition is and angle is ok, but I can't see, what happens behind the door.
#2 The Piano and the workbench are taking the eyes straight to the repairman....but the repairman is just a silhouette and small like a mouse.
I would take the repairman in a frontal portrait position in front of this setting cause HE is the repairman who is doing his work, not a mouse behind his workbench. ;-)
#3 That's a real good one. His walk is strong, without seeing his face you know, that he is the "boss" of the pianos, standing
around in this room. I like this shot very much!
#4 The tools are to small, get them closer and only a piece of the keyboard is needed for telling the story of a repairman.
#5 This shot is telling def a story about pianos. The Chairs, the Piano in the next room. The mirror and the angle are giving a
good dynamic, it seems to be, that you are IN the picture or better said, in this workshop.
#6 What have the keys to do with pianorepairing. Ok, good angle, and it's a bit candy. If there were some tools instead the keys, it were a very good piture.
#7 + 8 Very good!! The Master is shown at work. It's a living scene with high dynamics.
#9 Beautiful, the high polished piano in the front, the wrecked Yamaha piano in the back, who's waiting for a restoring. And graphical composition is very good too!!
#10 + 11 are very good, same thoughts like 7 and 8
Really good work martin!! I like this set very much and I'm anxious to see more of your pictureseries.
#2 The Piano and the workbench are taking the eyes straight to the repairman....but the repairman is just a silhouette and small like a mouse.
I would take the repairman in a frontal portrait position in front of this setting cause HE is the repairman who is doing his work, not a mouse behind his workbench. ;-)
#3 That's a real good one. His walk is strong, without seeing his face you know, that he is the "boss" of the pianos, standing
around in this room. I like this shot very much!
#4 The tools are to small, get them closer and only a piece of the keyboard is needed for telling the story of a repairman.
#5 This shot is telling def a story about pianos. The Chairs, the Piano in the next room. The mirror and the angle are giving a
good dynamic, it seems to be, that you are IN the picture or better said, in this workshop.
#6 What have the keys to do with pianorepairing. Ok, good angle, and it's a bit candy. If there were some tools instead the keys, it were a very good piture.
#7 + 8 Very good!! The Master is shown at work. It's a living scene with high dynamics.
#9 Beautiful, the high polished piano in the front, the wrecked Yamaha piano in the back, who's waiting for a restoring. And graphical composition is very good too!!
#10 + 11 are very good, same thoughts like 7 and 8
Really good work martin!! I like this set very much and I'm anxious to see more of your pictureseries.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
First of all, those are good black and white shots (technically and aesthetically). Good job.
It seems that you're trying to convey what happened during the repair of a piano. That would be a concise and focused angle to write a documentary for, thus, a good choice, in my view.
I like all the shots of the repairman and the piano (one shot with his feet on the pedals would complete the set, just an idea). Shot #9 can be used as the closing shot indicating that the other piano is next on his list to fix. Or maybe another shot with him wiping off his fingerprints from the piano when he finished the repair.
Shot #4 can be much closer, focusing on the tools atop the keyboard.
I like shot #3, but it is kinda out of place in the set.
It seems that you're trying to convey what happened during the repair of a piano. That would be a concise and focused angle to write a documentary for, thus, a good choice, in my view.
I like all the shots of the repairman and the piano (one shot with his feet on the pedals would complete the set, just an idea). Shot #9 can be used as the closing shot indicating that the other piano is next on his list to fix. Or maybe another shot with him wiping off his fingerprints from the piano when he finished the repair.
Shot #4 can be much closer, focusing on the tools atop the keyboard.
I like shot #3, but it is kinda out of place in the set.
adietrich
Established
Hallo Martin,
Here are some of my impressions:
-I like the contrast between #3 and #4, different sides of the same trade.
-I am not the biggest fan of tilt, and I spend quite some time in LR to get rid of the unintentional tilt I have in a lot of my pictures.
-I like the motion blur of the guys hands.
Regards,
Arne
Here are some of my impressions:
-I like the contrast between #3 and #4, different sides of the same trade.
-I am not the biggest fan of tilt, and I spend quite some time in LR to get rid of the unintentional tilt I have in a lot of my pictures.
-I like the motion blur of the guys hands.
Regards,
Arne
Sam N
Well-known
It could use a closeup of the subject's hands working on the machinery of the piano. If you're using an RF, this might require a different camera.
As others have said, a portrait of the man himself would be nice. However, it seems like you want to focus more on the job than on the individual, in which case it might be better to keep the subject's face out of it altogether.
It could just be my monitor here, but I feel like there isn't enough shadow detail in some of the shots (#2 and #8 for example).
The idea is really great and you've conveyed a good sense of the mood of the workspace.
As others have said, a portrait of the man himself would be nice. However, it seems like you want to focus more on the job than on the individual, in which case it might be better to keep the subject's face out of it altogether.
It could just be my monitor here, but I feel like there isn't enough shadow detail in some of the shots (#2 and #8 for example).
The idea is really great and you've conveyed a good sense of the mood of the workspace.
LennartW
Member
You need to get closer!
And by closer I do not mean the meters that you are away from him but the personal distance to him.
We need a face, expressions and emotions.
Try to get up close and shoot it the way you feel the situation.
Hope that helps
.
Lennart
And by closer I do not mean the meters that you are away from him but the personal distance to him.
We need a face, expressions and emotions.
Try to get up close and shoot it the way you feel the situation.
Hope that helps
.Lennart
martin s
Well-known
First of all, thanks a lot everyone! A lot more than I expected
Thanks for pointing that out, a really odd choice of pictures with all of them having tilted horizons. I'll look out for that.
It's not ordered, I figured it'd be good practice. I picked the slow and not-so exotic topic to not have that much pressure.
Absolutely true, I never really reduced it to those three. I (wrongly) figured I could just shoot and later put the images together. Turns out deciding in the beginning would have save me quite some trouble. I actually still don't know which one of the three it is.
I will include some close ups of tools, I actually shot a few - they're just really, really boring.
That's something I have more issues with than the freakin' tools. Casual portrait, I'll try for sure.
A great idea, generally I'd be tempted but in this case I want to try to tell some story more than take good photographs. The mentioned "coherent story".
It isn't his, no, and with the customers I'm still nervous - interaction is really short, usually, but I'll add some if I decide to go the shop-documentary route.
Christoph, thanks for the detailed (English) reply, also on Flickr!
I used a RF with a 35mm and a 28mm, because of that I added a 50mm a few days ago. I'll see if that works out, otherwise there's a nice Oly om-1 in a used camera shop around the corner I might pick up.
Do you have an idea how to take the door shot in a better way? I don't like the posted one either, but I have issues with the introduction shot. I shot the doorway, too, which is a way nicer picture but tells even less.
I'll try that first now, I'll make it about him, the repair man. Hopefully he'll let me see a little more of his life, and he mentioned, that he likes playing the piano, too.
If that route doesn't work out, I'll make it about pianos. I'm not all that interested in the shop itself.
I have to say to I thought about directions and topics within this topic a lot and couldn't really phrase it the way some of you did.
I'll try to implement the ideas, but I might eventually just move on and try to implement your ideas from the beginning.
I'm off on vacation now, I'll post a few more later next week.
martin
Thanks for pointing that out, a really odd choice of pictures with all of them having tilted horizons. I'll look out for that.
It's not ordered, I figured it'd be good practice. I picked the slow and not-so exotic topic to not have that much pressure.
Thanks Xax!
morback said:
Absolutely true, I never really reduced it to those three. I (wrongly) figured I could just shoot and later put the images together. Turns out deciding in the beginning would have save me quite some trouble. I actually still don't know which one of the three it is.
Oscar Levant said:
I will include some close ups of tools, I actually shot a few - they're just really, really boring.
Florian said:
That's something I have more issues with than the freakin' tools. Casual portrait, I'll try for sure.
Roger Hicks said:
A great idea, generally I'd be tempted but in this case I want to try to tell some story more than take good photographs. The mentioned "coherent story".
tom.w.bn said:
It isn't his, no, and with the customers I'm still nervous - interaction is really short, usually, but I'll add some if I decide to go the shop-documentary route.
Christoph, thanks for the detailed (English) reply, also on Flickr!
Sam N said:
I used a RF with a 35mm and a 28mm, because of that I added a 50mm a few days ago. I'll see if that works out, otherwise there's a nice Oly om-1 in a used camera shop around the corner I might pick up.
Journeyman said:
Do you have an idea how to take the door shot in a better way? I don't like the posted one either, but I have issues with the introduction shot. I shot the doorway, too, which is a way nicer picture but tells even less.
What could be a possible conflict?
LennartW said:
I'll try that first now, I'll make it about him, the repair man. Hopefully he'll let me see a little more of his life, and he mentioned, that he likes playing the piano, too.
If that route doesn't work out, I'll make it about pianos. I'm not all that interested in the shop itself.
I have to say to I thought about directions and topics within this topic a lot and couldn't really phrase it the way some of you did.
I'll try to implement the ideas, but I might eventually just move on and try to implement your ideas from the beginning.
I'm off on vacation now, I'll post a few more later next week.
martin