Does this camera exist?

[Orthogonal]

If we go down that route there are many pocketable scale focus or RF cameras with 1/500 and 2.8 or even faster lens. We can start with Ricoh 500 series and continue forever (all Oly XA models, plenty of Konicas etc.)

I have Rollei 35s - really nice camera and lens, but slow shooting, ergonomics not the best.

The reason why I brought up the Rollei 35 sonnar series is that it's the closest thing to a non-electronic T2. Personally I use mine quite a bit, can operate it by feel and focus accurately wide open, but there are also people that hate it, which I totally understand too. Which camp the OP falls into is up to him.

With the exception of the XA (good option) I wouldn't consider any leaf shutter rangefinders pocketable and few have lenses that are at the sonnar's level. As far as compact viewfinder cameras go I can only think of the Petri and Minox, for 35mm anyway.

 

[valdas]

The reason why I brought up the Rollei 35 sonnar series is that it's the closest thing to a non-electronic T2. Personally I use mine quite a bit, can operate it by feel and focus accurately wide open, but there are also people that hate it, which I totally understand too. Which camp the OP falls into is up to him.

With the exception of the XA (good option) I wouldn't consider any leaf shutter rangefinders pocketable and few have lenses that are at the sonnar's level. As far as compact viewfinder cameras go I can only think of the Petri and Minox, for 35mm anyway.

Probably there aren’t many, but I can think of Cosina CX1, so there must be some. In AF league there is Minolta AF-C (I regret selling it), Canon MC. All these have 1/500 (Minolta, in fact 1/430, but close enough), surely - no manual controls with those. But very pocketable.

 

[redimp]

For now I'm still shooting with the T2 as my carry-on, at a rate of around 2-3 frames a day. In the evenings or indoors I'm doing just fine, it's quite discrete and with 800 portra I get decent speeds for hand held. Mornings and daytime it's a bit more limiting, camera always tops to 1/500th and I have to set it to program mode, so it's stopping down significantly I assume.

Meanwhile I've decided to categorize my options. So far I've got this:

Small SLRs with a 40-45mm pancake:
Olympus (not sure which one of them, need to start researching) with a 40/2
Pentax (again not sure which one) with a 2.8 pancake
Small contax (like the RTS II) with a 45 2.8 tessar
Canon kiss with a 40 2.8 pancake
A nikon with a pancake

Small M rangefinder:
CLE or a CL with a 40/2

Small fixed lens rangefidners:
There's ton of these, started making a list, looks like Oly 35RC or Koncia C35 could be a way to go.

Fixed lens AF 'rangefidners' (big point-n-shoots) – like the canon sure shot, konica C35AF and the likes

Premium point and shoot cams – T3 or Klasse S seem to be the only two suitable options.

I must admit that after 5 years or so without buying new cameras I've got a bit of GAS going on right now, so I need a reality check and have to list down two main reasons why I want to replace the T2:

1. Limiting exposure choices – fast speeds available only in program mode and when stopped all the way down.
2. It's never clear when the shutter is actually released


Then I've decided to make a checklist of stuff I want from a daily cam:

1. Some form of exposure automation – Aperture priority preferably
2. Faster shutter speeds available for all aperture values
3. 35-45mm lens, 43mm ideally (looks like only pentax has 43mm 1.9 lens)
4. Compactness. I thought if it's a tad bigger then the T2 I'm gonna be OK, will just screw on a UV filter on the lens and carry it inside the backpack.


If I didn't own a G1 I would probably consider it to be an ideal option, and would probably even buy one off ebay, but owning one the darn viewfinder is just so upsetting 🙁

 

[jsrockit]

If I didn't own a G1 I would probably consider it to be an ideal option, and would probably even buy one off ebay, but owning one the darn viewfinder is just so upsetting 🙁

Ok, so why not the G2?

 

[littleearth]

Contax Aria with the 45mm. Very small and great camera.

 

[David Hughes]

So really it has to be the Olympus XA; a RF, f/2.8, Aperture priority, +1½ EV override, metal - not plastic - gears, thousands of them about, dozens of repairers, cheap and common batteries, top speed 500th and so and so on.


What's not to like?


Regards, David

 

[redimp]

Ok, so why not the G2?

The G2 has the exact same viewfinder as the G1, right?

 

[splitimageview]

No, the G2 is nearly the same, but not quite. The exit pupil is slightly larger on the G2.

Neither are large enough, tho! Takes some practice bringing up the viewfinder to the eye, so the eye is in the cone of the exit pupil to avoid blackout.

I prefer the G1, smaller/lighter/cheaper. Never had focus issues that many people complain of, owned maybe 4 or 5 over the years. Just have to know what the camera is looking for to nail focus (contrast/verticals), and keep an eye on the distance display in the viewfinder.

 

[splitimageview]

Contax Aria with the 45mm. Very small and great camera.

Or the 159 if you don't want autowind. 1/4000 shutter

139 if 1/1000 is fast enough.

They are identical size

 

[Huss]

Probably there aren’t many, but I can think of Cosina CX1, so there must be some. In AF league there is Minolta AF-C (I regret selling it), Canon MC. All these have 1/500 (Minolta, in fact 1/430, but close enough), surely - no manual controls with those. But very pocketable.

I have two perfect Cosina CX2s (both with motor drive, one with the dive housing!) and while they are very compact, the lenses are very lomo-esque. Which is why Lomo used the CX-1 as the basis of the LC-A. Not very sharp but saturates colors.
Also have the Minolta AF-C. Tiny, fun. Not exactly cutting edge AF.

All this stuff is for sale! 😀





Pentax MX w/ pancake lens. This get up is tiny! If you want AE, then an ME or ME Super is about the same size.

 

[redimp]

Or the 159 if you don't want autowind. 1/4000 shutter

139 if 1/1000 is fast enough.

They are identical size

By 139 you mean the 139Q? It's supposed to be much smaller than the 159, right?

 

[splitimageview]

Yes, 139Q. No, it's not much smaller. I had both a while back, and did a size comparison, they are essentially identical size. The winder for the 159 actually fits the 139, too.

I only have the 159 now, with the 45/2.8 in fact. Great lens!

 

[msarkki]

As mentioned in this thread 139q, 159mm and Aria are pretty much same size, Aria a bit bigger:

RTSII you mentioned as well as an option in some of the earlier posts is substantially bigger and heavier than those 3.

As David Hughes mentioned earlier in a thread, I think Oly XA would tick most of the boxes you described in your later mail regarding the key features needed on the camera. Contax T would have all the same features and in addition a wonderful Sonnar. Out of all of these Contax T would be my absolute favorite but XA is not bad either. Here you can see XA and T compared to 139q with 45mm Tessar.

With XA and T you do not have faster speeds than 1/500, but overexposure by one stop has never been issue for me if not shooting slide film. Giving XA a try would not even be financially that big of an issue, Contax T's prices seem to have gone up lately...

 

[redimp]

As mentioned in this thread 139q, 159mm and Aria are pretty much same size, Aria a bit bigger:

Thank you for posting pictures, this is super helpful. I am now ultimately down the rabbit hole, looking at contax SLRs, comparing to Nikon, etc.

Good thing is I have sold the G1 kit yesterday and freed up some cash. T2 is the next one to go, that should give me enough budget to get whatever I want, just need to figure out what it is.

 

[valdas]

Just a word on my experience with Contaxes. I love them, still use RTS II, two 139q and S2 (fully mechanical), but had to sell for spares my Aria (started rewinding film mid roll) and AX (also someting gone crazy with electronics). So I feel a bit uncertain about reliability when it comes to electronics. I also had 167MT which I loved and it worked ok (excep the rubber peeling off), but I sold it to “upgrage” to Aria 🙂

 

[David Hughes]

My comment about repairs was based on bitter experience too.


Regards, David


PS FWIW, ticking 8 boxes out of 10 is pretty good and 9 ex 10 almost impossible.

 

[Ste_S]

I think the answer was given on page 1 by a couple of people. Canon EOS300x with the 40mm pancake. Ticks all the boxes - compact, responsive af, pasm, pop up flash, 1/4000s top shutter speed etc.

Cheap too. No hipster points though if that's what you're after.

 

[Orthogonal]

I’m leery of the earlier Kyocera Contax SLRs, in my experience it took them a while before the electronics were all that reliable. I’ve had two 139qs die on me, either from foam deteriorating and gumming up the shutter or electronic failure. I eventually settled on an RX which has been great but much larger than the others. The most reliable (and best looking) is the S2, if you’re ok with full manual and a higher price tag.

The Zeiss 45mm is okay, but imo no different to other 45mm pancakes - pretty much any of the other C/Y lenses are genuinely beautiful though, the best budget prime being the 50mm 1.7. Others will disagree but I think if you’re set on 45mm pancakes then you may as well get a Nikon or Pentax for the reliability, and the canon 40mm is likely a step up from those 45s, but more modern.

 

[splitimageview]

I found the C/Y 45mm Pancake to be much more vibrant and contrasty than other pancakes, especially compared to the Nikkor 45 GN which is low contrast. The Nikkor 45 P is still pretty pricey with rather bland rendering, imho.

The Contax 139s are pretty cheap, most of them will need new coverings. I've had several, never had any failures. Just hunt for a little-used copy.

They aren't particularly hard to work on, there is this resource: http://www.contax139.co.uk, the site owner is a member of rff (Peter Robinson.) In the past I bought a 139 from him that he serviced, it was like new! And very well-priced.

The 159 doesn't have the deteriorating leatherette problem and has 1/4000.

 

[splitimageview]

I'm seriously looking at this combination:

40/2 Ultron with the electronic contacts (the true pancake, not the SL II S which is larger ) with Nikon F80.

I have a couple of N80/F80, which are pretty much perfect condition. These cameras are subject to the sticky back problem but they are not hard to find with good backs, and they were super cheap. One has a data back that will print data in between frames, they were about $40 each. They have matrix metering and 1/4000. Several Nikon DSLRs were based on this body so it's not ancient like an '80s era Contax.

These cameras will not meter with unchipped lenses; one option is to add a dandelion chip to a cheap Nikkor, like a 35/2.8 AIS. This is a lot cheaper than the 40/2 Ultron but it's not pancake-y. 🙂