Does this mean the economy is better?

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rover said:
Interesting statistic.

Of this @308m citizens the workforce is considered to be roughly 155m, or @half. I saw a count of roughly 130m taxpayers, but I suspect this # also counts corporate payers.

@74m citizens are 18yo or under, therefore largely unemployed and not payers call it near 25% of the population.....
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Yes, I always like this one. Take out children, students, the the long-term and short-term unemployed, housewives/househusbands, young mothers on maternity leave, old age pensioners and the chronically sick. Suddenly a workforce of about half the population seems likely to be a generous estimate. Now take out those on poverty wages and yes, I'd expect a maximum of about 1/3 of the population to be taxpayers.

There are however those who appear to want children to be back in the mines, or sweeping chimneys.

Cheers,

R.
 
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Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Olsen did the breakdown in his country, showing that only part of the population is part of the workforce. Wonder why he forgot to do so for the US. Nonetheless, his question has some merit, as a large part of the US workforce is exempt from taxes due to poverty. I think that is what he was trying to say. Norway hasn't got the crushing poverty that so many Americans suffer from, so everyone makes enough to pay taxes.
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Holy Moses! Thanks for enlighten me.

We do have poor people over here too. I help an old school friend of mine who is an alcoholic with his tax return every year. He lives with his old mother, each with a small pension. Here you can do your tax return statement by internet or even SMS, but I go through the process with them the old paper way each February. Over here you can deduct 74.000 NOK (13,000 $) from you taxable income. All above you have to pay taxes for. Typical for these two will be that they - each - have a net income of NOK 200.000, which means they have to have to pay some 25% taxes off 126.000 NOK - leaving them with some 94.500 NOK (17,000 $) to live of. Not much in a country where a cup of coffee costs 3 $...
 
Olsen said:
Holy Moses! Thanks for enlighten me.

We do have poor people over here too. I help an old school friend of mine who is an alcoholic with his tax return every year. He lives with his old mother, each with a small pension. Here you can do your tax return statement by internet or even SMS, but I go through the process with them the old paper way each February. Over here you can deduct 74.000 NOK (13,000 $) from you taxable income. All above you have to pay taxes for. Typical for these two will be that they - each - have a net income of NOK 200.000, which means they have to have to pay some 25% taxes off 126.000 NOK - leaving them with some 94.500 NOK (17,000 $) to live of. Not much in a country where a cup of coffee costs 3 $...
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Dont people get a lot of other things though that Americans have to pay for? Health care from the government is a big one. The professor I mentioned above said that in France the government subsidizes housing for low income people. The US has a housing subsidy program but it is so woefully underfunded that most who qualify for it based on income are told they cannot have it. In my city, there is a 3 year long waiting list to get on housing subsidy.
 
Olsen,

Still, the typical thing would be that, if you have a job here in Norway, you have decent income, at minimum NOK 300.000 of which you pay about 30% tax.

Chris,

That US workers earn so little that they do not pay taxes is appalling...
 
Spoks said:
Olsen,

Still, the typical thing would be that, if you have a job here in Norway, you have decent income, at minimum NOK 300.000 of which you pay about 30% tax.

Chris,

That US workers earn so little that they do not pay taxes is appalling...
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No, it's not. The genuinely poor should not pay income tax, but as far as I recall, it was (and may still be) possible to be under the UK 'poverty line' and still pay income tax. Setting income tax thresholds at realistic levels is an essential part of taxation policy, or it costs more to collect and give back than it does to leave it in the hands of the poor in the first place.

As soon as you have any debt, you have to earn enough to service the debt, which pushes you above the tax threshold. No wonder governments love student loans!

The poor do however pay VAT and excise taxes, among other, lesser taxes.

Cheers,

R.
 
Olsen said:
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'Taxes' is indeed the heart of the problem of US national well being. Read my lips; you have been paying all too little in taxes since - Ronald Reagan's days. That is 30 years.

- Now comes the bill: Who's gonna pay..? (I am glad it is not me).

Link to Laffer's theory here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve
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I'm glad you are very happy with your high taxes. Enjoy!

I've worked in the private sector, and the public sector. I know which was more efficient. I know which one was a waste of someone elses money, and which was not. I've seen what politicians do with MY money when they waste it on nonsense pork barrel projects. Far better to keep the money in MY pocket, than line someone elses. The best way, to me, is clear. Keep the money out of the hands of the politicians & civil servants in the first place.
 
Roger Hicks said:
No, it's not. The genuinely poor should not pay income tax, but as far as I recall, it was (and may still be) possible to be under the UK 'poverty line' and still pay income tax. Setting income tax thresholds at realistic levels is an essential part of taxation policy, or it costs more to collect and give back than it does to leave it in the hands of the poor in the first place.

As soon as you have any debt, you have to earn enough to service the debt, which pushes you above the tax threshold. No wonder governments love student loans!

The poor do however pay VAT and excise taxes, among other, lesser taxes.

Cheers,

R.
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I think he was appalled that people earn so little, not that they do not pay taxes. We do pay sales taxes (in those states and cities that have them), auto taxes, and social security taxes no matter how poor.
 
dfoo said:
I'm glad you are very happy with your high taxes. Enjoy!

I've worked in the private sector, and the public sector. I know which was more efficient. I know which one was a waste of someone elses money, and which was not. I've seen what politicians do with MY money when they waste it on nonsense pork barrel projects. Far better to keep the money in MY pocket, than line someone elses. The best way, to me, is clear. Keep the money out of the hands of the politicians & civil servants in the first place.
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Thats how it is here because big business owns our government and politicians. In Europe government serves the people and is more efficient. Of course, those who oppose having to help those less fortunate than themselves will always bitch that government sucks. If thats the case, I'll tell you what I tell all the anti-government zealots: Go somewhere where there isn't a government to 'oppress' you. Somalia is a good choice. I guarantee that you'll be back in a heartbeat begging to come back.
 
dfoo said:
I'm glad you are very happy with your high taxes. Enjoy!

I've worked in the private sector, and the public sector. I know which was more efficient. I know which one was a waste of someone elses money, and which was not. I've seen what politicians do with MY money when they waste it on nonsense pork barrel projects. Far better to keep the money in MY pocket, than line someone elses. The best way, to me, is clear. Keep the money out of the hands of the politicians & civil servants in the first place.
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I have also worked in both in the public and private sector. Efficiency was about the same, while salaries were 25% higher in the private sector, - and the pension 25% higher in the public sector. There is no 'law' dictating that services have to be 'private' to be efficient. This, along with the Laffer crap, is the sort of myths that those owning the private services will try to convince you with. A public service is also 'public' in the way that all is public. If it is not efficient you can write about it in the newspapers. If it is private it is a company secret.

The struggle for who's going to run things and own things, that is indeed the heart of the political struggle. Looking over the Atlantic, it convinces me that to have it all private is not the solution...
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Thats how it is here because big business owns our government and politicians. In Europe government serves the people and is more efficient. Of course, those who oppose having to help those less fortunate than themselves will always bitch that government sucks. If thats the case, I'll tell you what I tell all the anti-government zealots: Go somewhere where there isn't a government to 'oppress' you. Somalia is a good choice. I guarantee that you'll be back in a heartbeat begging to come back.
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Have you lived in Europe? Or is this heresay? I've lived in Europe, China, Canada and the USA...

BTW, who is saying there should be no government? Personally, I'm saying don't tax the crap out of us.
 
Olsen said:
....owning the private services will try to convince you with. A public service is also 'public' in the way that all is public. If it is not efficient you can write about it in the newspapers. If it is private it is a company secret.

The struggle for who's going to run things and own things, that is indeed the heart of the political struggle. Looking over the Atlantic, it convinces me that to have it all private is not the solution...
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The difference is that public you have no choice in paying for it. In essence the government extorts the money from you. If you don't pay your taxes, off to jail you go! In the private sector, you have a choice.

I would also point out that the USA is hardly the paragon of small government. It isn't a model that I would choose as ideal either!
 
dfoo said:
In essence the government extorts the money from you.
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No. You pay for a service, which is quality assured through public insight. But first of all; you share. You share your - say, health care costs with others. A far better system than the privatised US system, which only success is measured in 'profit' on the owners hand. The reason we have it like this is 'democracy'. We could chose to privatise it all every four years, when there is a parliament election.
 
Olsen said:
No. You pay for a service, which is quality assured through public insight. But first of all; you share. You share your - say, health care costs with others. A far better system than the privatised US system, which only success is measured in 'profit' on the owners hand. The reason we have it like this is 'democracy'. We could chose to privatise it all every four years, when there is a parliament election.
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You have no choice in the matter. Or am I mistaken?

BTW, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't speak to me like an idiot. Its insulting, and uncalled for.
 
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dfoo said:
You have no choice in the matter. Or am I mistaken?

BTW, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't speak to me like an idiot. Its insulting, and uncalled for.
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Possibly if you treated others slightly less like idiots they would be less inclined to return the compliment.

Cheers,

R.
 
dfoo said:
You have no choice in the matter. Or am I mistaken?

BTW, I would appreciate it if you wouldn't speak to me like an idiot. Its insulting, and uncalled for.
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I can chose to go to a private clinic, if I wanted to. It would be a waste of money. And we vote for certain parties every 4 years. There is a few claiming that all will be fine if we privatise everything. They have not managed to convince the majority over here yet.

I am sorry if I sound insulting. English is not my mother tongue. Have me excused if I miss the politeness. i intend not to be insulting.
 
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My point is that you cannot choose not to pay taxes. In most cases you can choose to not support a company (yes, there are some where its practically impossible such as basic utilities). In many cases, such as Canada, its actually quite difficult to stop paying taxes even if you no longer reside in the country. In my case, for example, I lived in China for 5 years but yet still payed Canadian federal and provincial taxes which for me are around 45% of my overall income. Yet I took no advantage whatsoever of the services for which I was paying. That simply isn't fair.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Thats how it is here because big business owns our government and politicians. In Europe government serves the people and is more efficient. Of course, those who oppose having to help those less fortunate than themselves will always bitch that government sucks. If thats the case, I'll tell you what I tell all the anti-government zealots: Go somewhere where there isn't a government to 'oppress' you. Somalia is a good choice. I guarantee that you'll be back in a heartbeat begging to come back.
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Well, well, it is not all that perfect over here. Europe is a big place with a lot of different nations and a lot of hanki panki. Berlusconi; ever heard about him? How would it be if John Gotti was US president?

But Chris,

I looked up your photo site; simply awesome! Like the photo of your grandpa's cat. A picture you never forget! Awesome, that's the world. I am touched.
 
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