Don't look now...jobs situation is worse than imagined.

[dave lackey]

For those of you who don't know/didn't care/never thought about it/stuck your head in the sand/ or/never experienced unemployment, this morning's CNN Money just published a decent article about the REAL jobs situation:

Quote:
Last month, only 58.1% of Americans age 16 and over were employed, a significant drop from before the recession and the lowest since 1983.

And to think that Congress is on vacation! for 5 weeks while the ship is sinking! That M9 will be a long time coming.😱

I hope this doesn't turn into a political argument that I will have to delete but I just wanted to post for those of us (including me) who never get the real story about the jobs situation.:angel:

 

[jarski]

irony of the situation is that biggest creditor of capitalist west is communist China 😀

I hope this doesn't turn into a political argument ...

bring up political topic and deny politics from it, are we ? 😉

 

[dave lackey]

irony of the situation is that biggest creditor of capitalist west is communist China 😀



bring up political topic and deny politics from it, are we ? 😉

Yes. Can we not be gentlemen and discuss personal issues without getting into politics? For instance, I have been out of work since 2008. The first 18 months, I came close to a getting work only twice. The last 18 months, I have been converted to a 24/7 caregiver and hoping soon to look for at least a part-time position. Having said that, I don't give a rat about political discussions because politics is what put me in the financial situation I found myself in after working for 38 years in my industry.

The silver lining in this hurricane is that now I am full-time into light writing.🙂

So, doesn't it alarm you that so few people, almost half of adults over age 16, do not have JOBS?😱 And, to further add facts to the issue, the REAL unemployment rate is approximately 18% which was verified by my inquiry into the Labor Department through my local congressman's office.

 

[JoeV]

As my brother once stated "there's plenty of work out there ... if you're willing to work for free."

Unemployment is the single most important indicator of our nation's economic decline. Without jobs people don't have the disposable income required to fuel a consumer economy.

Dave, your statistic of 18% sounds about right to me. As the old saying goes, "statistics don't lie - statisticians lie." The economy is much worse than we're told by official statements. Good luck to you in your writing.

~Joe

 

[flip]

National instincts in 2008 may have been on target - that is, the people somehow realized that times were not unlike the 1930's. Yet, the failure of those elected to effect dramatic action on the key issue is a bit sad. Didn't get any better in 2010. Universal personel failure all around.

I didn't think I'd stay in Japan this long, but I'm not foolish enough to quit work when I have it. I do miss my family and friends, though. I guess that's what I'm willing to do to work. Hard times.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Yes. Can we not be gentlemen and discuss personal issues without getting into politics? For instance, I have been out of work since 2008. The first 18 months, I came close to a getting work only twice. The last 18 months, I have been converted to a 24/7 caregiver and hoping soon to look for at least a part-time position. Having said that, I don't give a rat about political discussions because politics is what put me in the financial situation I found myself in after working for 38 years in my industry.

The silver lining in this hurricane is that now I am full-time into light writing.🙂

So, doesn't it alarm you that so few people, almost half of adults over age 16, do not have JOBS?:eek: And, to further add facts to the issue, the REAL unemployment rate is approximately 18% which was verified by my inquiry into the Labor Department through my local congressman's office.

Not necessarily all that worrying. Take out:

'Unemployed' spouses, probably the norm for most of human history.

Students, most of whom would already have been earning a living 50 years ago.

Young people who 'don't need a job yet' (because they prefer living off their parents, who can afford to keep them, for a given value of 'afford')

Old retired people, increasingly common for at least 100 years (first old age state pensions: Prussia)

People who voluntarily retire early because they can afford to. (NOT involuntarily).

It's still higher than any rational person would like, but what worries me most is 'students' who now need a degree to get into a job a school leaver could have taken up 100 years ago, and who are cynically saddled with massive debt to make them too terrified to raise their heads above the parapet. More and more of the smart kids I know are avoiding university because of the debt.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Michiel Fokkema]

It's all about definitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment
But it never takes into account all the adult people.
Its more about the amount of people that want a job but can't find one. That rules out pensionades, students, housewife etc.

Cheers,
Michiel

 

[Nikon Bob]

Not necessarily all that worrying. Take out:

'Unemployed' spouses, probably the norm for most of human history.

Students, most of whom would already have been earning a living 50 years ago.

Young people who 'don't need a job yet' (because they prefer living off their parents, who can afford to keep them, for a given value of 'afford')

Old retired people, increasingly common for at least 100 years (first old age state pensions: Prussia)

People who voluntarily retire early because they can afford to. (NOT involuntarily).

It's still higher than any rational person would like, but what worries me most is 'students' who now need a degree to get into a job a school leaver could have taken up 100 years ago, and who are cynically saddled with massive debt to make them too terrified to raise their heads above the parapet. More and more of the smart kids I know are avoiding university because of the debt.

Cheers,

R.

Anyone who is considered legally an adult and is not working and bringing an income is unemployed. That is unless you have a physical or mental handicap that prevents you from doing so. I could agree that if one is lucky enough to afford to be a stay at home parent then they too should not be considered unemployed and pensioners should not be considered unemployed. I never could see not including students passed the age of majority, stay at home moochers passed the age of majority or people who have run out their benefits. I guess that is a contrived way for Governments to hide the real numbers. If you can make up the criteria of what is or is not included you can make yourself look, maybe not good, but slightly less bad. You gotta love smoke and mirrors.

Bob

 

[Roger Hicks]

Anyone who is considered legally an adult and is not working and bringing an income is unemployed. That is unless you have a physical or mental handicap that prevents you from doing so. I could agree that if one is lucky enough to afford to be a stay at home parent then they too should not be considered unemployed and pensioners should not be considered unemployed. I never could see not including students passed the age of majority, stay at home moochers passed the age of majority or people who have run out their benefits. I guess that is a contrived way for Governments to hide the real numbers. If you can make up the criteria of what is or is not included you can make yourself look, maybe not good, but slightly less bad. You gotta love smoke and mirrors.

Bob

Dear Bob,

This is exactly my suspicion, with the added cruelty of forcing kids to acquire often worthless degrees and a massive debt burden.

Cheers,

R.

 

[shadowfox]

Quote:
Last month, only 58.1% of Americans age 16 and over were employed, a significant drop from before the recession and the lowest since 1983.

My question(s), Dave.

1. How did they come up with that number?

2. Are entrepreneurs considered as "employed" or not?

Most people who own businesses (that means cash and jobs) are in the "wait-and-see" mode until the government made up their minds about what they can or cannot do about the economy. This by definition puts a break on job growth.

So you are correct, the sooner the politicians let go of what they are not supposed to control in the first place, the sooner we'll get our jobs back.

 

[Nikon Bob]

Dear Bob,

This is exactly my suspicion, with the added cruelty of forcing kids to acquire often worthless degrees and a massive debt burden.

Cheers,

R.

I was going to modify my post to include that angle too but was too lazy. It used to be that the way to generate a stable workforce was to have enough well paying full time jobs for most so that they would buy that expensive first new fast car or by a house, in essence create docile wage slaves, that would consume and drive the economy. Now that a huge amount of what were good paying full time jobs are seemingly gone forever the idea seems to be to channel young people into getting post secondary educations. That serves two purposes, lowers the unemployment rate and still creates a debt burdened consumer that has to work at whatever is available. I might be too cynical.

The job creation numbers are a joke in that the majority of jobs created seem to be part time. Having a part time job would give me no confidence to take on a long term debt load. The hours are reduced to the point where benefits do not have to be paid and neither do you get paid breaks. There is more but you quickly get the idea.

I would not want to start my working career today in this environment. Glad I was able to work 34 years for one employer and retire with a pension good enough to take care of the necessities, all on a grade 9 education. I would never be hired today at the place I worked at because I don't meet the present educational requirements but worked successfully for them for 34 years. It is a puzzle, no?

Bob

 

[dave lackey]

My question(s), Dave.

1. How did they come up with that number?

2. Are entrepreneurs considered as "employed" or not?

Most people who own businesses (that means cash and jobs) are in the "wait-and-see" mode until the government made up their minds about what they can or cannot do about the economy. This by definition puts a break on job growth.

So you are correct, the sooner the politicians let go of what they are not supposed to control in the first place, the sooner we'll get our jobs back.

Will, the 58% figure is the number of actual employed people out of the entire adult population over age 16. It does include people who are self-employed because you can't be both at the same time. It is a little more meaningful than unemployment levels but when you consider that at 18% unemployment, about 1 of every 5 people are out of work. THAT is unreal!😱
Got to CNN Money to read more about it.

 

[Frontman]

During my careers (careers) two of my employers have gone bankrupt, but I have never filed for unemployment benefits. Instead, I went out and found another job quickly. The jobs I found were not as good as the ones I had lost, but they still paid better than unemployment "benefits".

Now, rather than depend solely on an employer, I run a couple of small businesses. I enjoy being the boss (even if my staff consists only of myself), and it is nice to have the ability to support myself should my current company go belly-up, or I get tired of working there.

 

[Roger Hicks]

During my careers (careers) two of my employers have gone bankrupt, but I have never filed for unemployment benefits. Instead, I went out and found another job quickly. The jobs I found were not as good as the ones I had lost, but they still paid better than unemployment "benefits".

Now, rather than depend solely on an employer, I run a couple of small businesses. I enjoy being the boss (even if my staff consists only of myself), and it is nice to have the ability to support myself should my current company go belly-up, or I get tired of working there.

The French have a saying, les fautes de ses qualités, the faults of its qualities. Working for yourself is like that. Your boss is a hard taskmaster, but very understanding...

Cheers,

R.

 

[dave lackey]

During my careers (careers) two of my employers have gone bankrupt, but I have never filed for unemployment benefits. Instead, I went out and found another job quickly. The jobs I found were not as good as the ones I had lost, but they still paid better than unemployment "benefits".

Now, rather than depend solely on an employer, I run a couple of small businesses. I enjoy being the boss (even if my staff consists only of myself), and it is nice to have the ability to support myself should my current company go belly-up, or I get tired of working there.

Great for you! I have been working since I was 12 years old. Been through at least six recessions, had employers quite, die, go bankrupt and walked out on a lot of jobs in the last 40 years and never filed for unemployment. Until 2008.

It was not possible to get a lesser job. Some people do not believe that and that is THEIR problem, as they have not walked in my shoes. After the first 12 months, my wife has had a heart attack, stroke and 10 cardiac arrests. So, now I am self-employed as a caregiver. I work for her and she is quite understanding but the pay is lousy.😉

For almost 40 years, I paid into unemployment and I do not apologize to a damned person for having claimed those benefits back. Now, I am a full-time photographer and it pays even less than unemployment, and barely more than being a caregiver.

Every single engineer, surveyor and construction worker that I worked with since 1971 is out of work or folded up their business. THAT is how bad it is in my area. Most architects are out of work with no hope except to wait on a government project. EVERY single developer I have worked for is gone. And teaching? I can no longer teach at the university because they are not hiring.

Yes, it is bad and much worse than most people realize. But, a lot of people will be convinced in the coming months as the economy worsens. BTW, we are still in a "recession", it did not end in 2009, it became a prolonged depression!

 

[Frontman]

I remember years ago when m grandfather suffered a ruptured appendix. He was a self-employed farrier (horse shoer), and former stable segeant who served in the cavalry during WW2.

While he was being treated, the state gave him food stamps, and a couple of relief checks to help him get by. When he recovered, he returned what was left of the food stamps and the money. He wasn't happy until he eventually paid off the aid he had received. He said the pension he received after being disabled in the war (he had been in the Army for 13 years by 1945) was the only money he would accept from the government.

 

[Nikon Bob]

I remember years ago when m grandfather suffered a ruptured appendix. He was a self-employed farrier (horse shoer), and former stable segeant who served in the cavalry during WW2.

While he was being treated, the state gave him food stamps, and a couple of relief checks to help him get by. When he recovered, he returned what was left of the food stamps and the money. He wasn't happy until he eventually paid off the aid he had received. He said the pension he received after being disabled in the war (he had been in the Army for 13 years by 1945) was the only money he would accept from the government.

That is a truly heart warming tale and I mean that. Today there is Unemployment Insurance and lots of people have worked quite a few years and contributed to it by mandatory payroll deductions, at least in Canada, and being an insurance policy I see no reason to be ashamed to collect on it if unemployed. I have collected UI several times in my working career just as I would collect on my car insurance policy if I were in an accident. I don't see people collecting on an auto insurance policy after an accident being stigmatized for doing so. Why would collecting on an Unemployment Insurance policy be any different. Being retired and having a pension I cannot collect on UI and that is more than reasonable as a pension should be good enough to live on. Anyway times change and what may have once been considered a virtue may, in present circumstance, not be so applicable.

Bob

 

[Nikon Bob]

If you need anymore proof of how bad things are http://www.marketwatch.com/story/record-number-of-americans-on-food-stamps-2011-08-03 . You could feed the entire population of Canada with 11 million to spare. Just too depressing to comprehend.

Bob

 

[dave lackey]

Yes, Bob, that is the same report I read the other day. Depressing yet most people hide their head in the sand. I can't do that because my friends across the street and down the block as well as my brother/sister-in-law are on the same aid program. Empty houses abound in our middle-class neighbrohood where people have just walked away.

It looks like several more years of this at the minimum.😡

 

[seakayaker1]

Yes it is getting worse, and they will entice us to blame the other side as long as they can. If they can keep the issues in the mud we will never see clearly.

Paying for two wars and entitlement programs for the last decade without raising revenue to fund the expense was committing suicide. Not having a solid business plan in place to pay for what we are spending has killed the country.

Everybody wants a free lunch and no one wants to pick up the tab.

The presidential leadership and congress for the past decade had failed the country.

JMHO . . . . . or just venting for a moment . . . . .

. . . . . but don't worry, be happy . . . . . do not pull back the curtain, just close your eyes and click your heals three times . . . . . and everybody gonna be alright . . . . .


btw, I have collected unemployment a few times in my career. The first time was when I got out of the Marine Corps in July of 1974, I collected until I started college the following January. Then again in the early 90's after a merger and again in '02 after a corporate downsizing. As others have said the unemployment insurance was paid and I was happy to collect while putting resumes out and going through the interview process. Hoping to not have to sign-up again but with the forecast for future downturn in the economy I hope there is something left in the bucket if the need arises . . . . . .