Dopamine Feedback Loops: GAS and more...

[raydm6]

I no longer have GAS like I used to as I am thinking more of retirement in the not-too-distant future and to leading a more uncluttered life. Still, I still like my small stash of vintage cameras and will hang on to them for the immediate future. But, I feel I could be just as happy photographing with my iPhone - especially as the newer models evolve.

Given that, I came across some writings on dopamine feedback loops, and it sort of describes the psychological/physiological affects of what we go through either researching a new toy, anticipating a future purchase, anticipating a forum feedback comment, post, or a new thread (not this one 🙂), or anticipating positive feedback on a pic we posted, and more behaviors not related to photography.

It was interesting discovering a label to put on this phenomenon; not that it is the be-all-and-end-all. But, interesting nonetheless.

This article describes the anticipation of on-line shopping and I agree: online research, purchases, and anticipation of delivery is far more exciting than in in-store purchase. I'm sure we all felt that.

Dopamine
Shopping, Dopamine, and Anticipation - What monkeys have to teach us about shopping.

We react to anticipation and dopamine the same way. When you place an order for a product online, you don’t get the product right away. You have to wait. And in the waiting is anticipation.

In the report entitled "Digital Dopamine," Razorfish presented results from interviews and surveys of 1,680 shoppers from the US, UK, Brazil, and China in 2014. From the report: "Seventy-six percent of people in the US, 72 percent in the UK, 73 percent in Brazil, and 82 percent in China say they are more excited when their online purchases arrive in the mail than when they buy things in store.”

More interestingly - From TechTarget:

Dopamine is associated with “seeking” behavior. It works to motivate people to seek out food, information and entertainment, among myriad other commodities and experiences. Once a target is achieved, the brain’s opioid system delivers a chemical reward that we experience as pleasure. Through experiencing this cycle repeatedly, people and other animals learn to anticipate pleasure from seeking, which perpetuates the loop.

and...

Because the system doesn’t have a mechanism for satiety built into it, the behavior driven by the dopamine feedback loop can continue for much longer than the individual intends and, in fact, for much longer than they perceive psychological rewards.

The seeking process and shortly thereafter - lack of satiety - used to drive my GAS but I feel it has abated - for the most part.

Any thoughts?...

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I'm afraid none of this is news to any of us gear junkies, but at least we now have a name for it. And something to blame: "I'm not responsible, my brain made me do it!".

 

[ptpdprinter]

Isn't it amazing how the brain has evolved over eons to shop on the internet. Theologians may want to give that some thought.

 

[JeffS7444]

Any thoughts?...

Thanks for starting this topic, I'll be checking out those links that you've provided.

Meanwhile, let me share this related term: Hedonic Treadmill.

And this book: https://www.shambhala.com/hooked-745.html

Maybe the biggest reason that my buying has slowed down is a growing sense of déjà vu that much of my stuff eventually ended up being unloaded on eBay or donated to local charities (and either way, it's a chore). I can delay those restless feelings a bit longer by spending max $$ on a costly and/or scarce item, and I can extend the initial buzz by accessorizing the thing, but sooner or later the nagging feeling always come back; like something out of a Douglas Adams novel, usually on Sunday afternoons.

More than once, my excitement peaked when I clicked the "Buy" button, and by the time the thing actually arrived, I had already shifted my attention elsewhere.

 

[Darthfeeble]

GAS is so much more romantic than Dopamine Feedback Loop, or DFL. I hope that doesn't catch on.

 

[raydm6]

Thanks for starting this topic, I'll be checking out those links that you've provided.

Meanwhile, let me share this related term: Hedonic Treadmill.

And this book: https://www.shambhala.com/hooked-745.html

Maybe the biggest reason that my buying has slowed down is a growing sense of déjà vu that much of my stuff eventually ended up being unloaded on eBay or donated to local charities (and either way, it's a chore). I can delay those restless feelings a bit longer by spending max $$ on a costly and/or scarce item, and I can extend the initial buzz by accessorizing the thing, but sooner or later the nagging feeling always come back; like something out of a Douglas Adams novel, usually on Sunday afternoons.

More than once, my excitement peaked when I clicked the "Buy" button, and by the time the thing actually arrived, I had already shifted my attention elsewhere.

Thank you for the link. Yes, I have experienced that too. …“On to then next thing.” My ex-girlfriend was like that. Boy did I go through a lot of money.

 

[Pál_K]

This behavior exists independent of the internet or online purchasing, although having websites and discussion forums can greatly enhance the experience.

In the 1960’s I of knew a lady who would buy all sorts of things for her house, but never use them. They’d sit in their packaging. Sometimes she’d return an item for another multiple times. She loved the process of shopping. Her house was full of items bought but never used.

But, for the hobbyists such as ourselves, I offer this gem from around the late 1990’s or early 2000’s:

https://omegaforums.net/threads/my-descent-into-hell-the-mind-of-a-watch-addict.118376/

I actually met Ludwig at a lunch in Seattle for TimeZone participants. I held two of his new F.P. Journe watches in my hands, one of which was the Chonomètre à Résonance - so I’m holding two watches valued well over $100k. This was after he wrote that article.

 

[Retro-Grouch]

Let's all give a big "Thank you!" to Ludwig, an inspiration to us all. Next to him, we're all rank amateurs. And what should amateurs do? Improve their skills! I'm logging into ebay right now...

 

[JeffS7444]

I was going to say something about favoring experiences over material goods, but it seems that experiences can be perverted into a sort of consumerism too:
https://forge.medium.com/why-buy-experiences-not-things-is-bad-advice-ba59d6bede7b

 

[Pál_K]

I was going to say something about favoring experiences over material goods, but it seems that experiences can be perverted into a sort of consumerism too:
https://forge.medium.com/why-buy-experiences-not-things-is-bad-advice-ba59d6bede7b

Interesting article. Paraphrasing it, it does mention that if you’re intrinsically interested in the experience, rather than seeking to merely tick them off a list, then that is valuable.

As a self-proclaimed historian/archivist type of photographer, my use of cameras for photos of my city, the nearby landscape, and nature is truly satisfying (although I have maybe 1/100th the talent of our Chris Crawford). For this endeavor, I probably need only a medium format camera (my RB67s) and my little QL17.

But it’s too late to realize this and I’m not selling anything.

 

[Benjamin Marks]

I note with some amusement that this thread today happens to be on RFF's home page next to the thread, "What have you just BOUGHT," which has of today's date 10,829 responses. We have met the enemy and it is us.

 

[raydm6]

Well, this must be the weekend of synchronicities: I just discovered this 2008 thread here on RFF that sort of addresses some of the GAS issues. Fun read and some heated debate amongst some members unfortunately no longer with us...

 

[Retro-Grouch]

I wonder how many cameras Minor White had?

 

[Pál_K]

Well, reading that article, there’s the usual “something is missing in your life and you’re compensating by buying cameras” and the everworn trope of “you think you’ll get better photos by buying gear”.

But there are other less angst-filled explanations of why people like to have lots of cameras (or guitars, shoes, guns, watches, or handbags, etc.). With cameras, numerous things have consistently sparked my interest:

- The way the camera actually looks
- A reputation for ruggedness and reliability
- Analog viewfinder information via mechanical means
- The sound of the shutter (*)
- Interesting shooting modes
- Total mechanical operation
- Historical significance
- “Something of this quality will never be made again”

Given that initial interest, I research the camera further (which is fun) and I may actually buy it. I don’t buy it thinking it will improve my photos; I buy it because I’ll enjoy using it. The money spent won’t mean I’ll have to live under a bridge, so there’s no harm done.

(*) One example: I bought an Olympus Pen FT simply because I liked the sound of its rotary shutter. My camera repair friend was showing me an FT, which I always thought were nice looking, but I didn’t like half-frame). I enjoyed playing around with it and hearing the shutter. I bought it. The next week while planning just to make a couple photos with it, I was totally amazed at seeing my familiar neighborhood scenes in a totally new perspective through the half-frame vertical viewfinder, I spent the next two hours making 48 photos and the results were spectacular.

 

[farlymac]

G.A.S. by any other name is still the same thing. That said, my biggest thrill was when the USPS actually made good on their promised delivery date.

PF

 

[Retro-Grouch]

Well, reading that article, there’s the usual “something is missing in your life and you’re compensating by buying cameras” and the everworn trope of “you think you’ll get better photos by buying gear”.

But there are other less angst-filled explanations of why people like to have lots of cameras (or guitars, shoes, guns, watches, or handbags, etc.). With cameras, numerous things have consistently sparked my interest:

- The way the camera actually looks
- A reputation for ruggedness and reliability
- Analog viewfinder information via mechanical means
- The sound of the shutter (*)
- Interesting shooting modes
- Total mechanical operation
- Historical significance
- “Something of this quality will never be made again”

Given that initial interest, I research the camera further (which is fun) and I may actually buy it. I don’t buy it thinking it will improve my photos; I buy it because I’ll enjoy using it. The money spent won’t mean I’ll have to live under a bridge, so there’s no harm done.

(*) One example: I bought an Olympus Pen FT simply because I liked the sound of its rotary shutter. My camera repair friend was showing me an FT, which I always thought were nice looking, but I didn’t like half-frame). I enjoyed playing around with it and hearing the shutter. I bought it. The next week while planning just to make a couple photos with it, I was totally amazed at how, seeing my familiar neighborhood scenes in a totally new perspective through the half-frame vertical viewfinder, I spent the next two hours making 48 photos and the results were spectacular.

And let's not forget the need for a backup. And a backup for the backup, etc. etc. This has become a major reason for GAS since I went over to the dark side and started using some electronic cameras. When that 40-year-old circuit board dies, I want another body or two, or three, on hand.

 

[JeffS7444]

I found this on Buddhanet on the Realm of the Ego, which I thought was the best description of GAS I had ever read.
"If ego decides it likes the situation, it begins to churn up all sorts of ways to possess it. A craving to consume the situation arises and we long to satisfy that craving."

I think complement to this is an urge to avoid boredom, restlessness, and in general, being left alone with one's thoughts. And goodness knows, vast fortunes have been built upon ever more "Frictionless" means of consuming. And if 1-Click Shopping is still too much Friction, there's the algorithmic endless playlist which has become the standard for streaming media: No-Click Shopping!

But, I wonder if there's value in allowing one's self to be bored and restless. I've put Netflix on hiatus; and am just fine not keeping up with the antics of Jeremy Clarkson and James May on Prime Video, at least for a few months (not a particular fan of car shows). I figured instead, that I'd stare into the void for awhile and see if anything useful came of it. And compared to watching videos of grown men destroying automobiles for laughs, the void doesn't seem so bad.

Time will tell whether I'm better off for the time spent allowing myself to be bored and restless: I figure that I'll continue to want stuff, and mistakes will be made, but if it leads to even 10% less forgettable cluttery junk entering my life, that would be huge.

 

[raydm6]

Like anything else enjoyable or used as a distraction, I also wonder if GAS is used a mechanism for overcoming existential dread? This might be too strong a reason, but it could be used as a device for coping.

 

[Pál_K]

And let's not forget the need for a backup. And a backup for the backup, etc. etc. …

The most I have of any single camera is five Nikon F2’s. Even that won’t last my nine lives.

Like anything else enjoyable or used as a distraction, I also wonder if GAS is used a mechanism for overcoming existential dread? This might be too strong a reason, but it could be used as a device for coping.

The lady I mentioned earlier who kept buying stuff for her house but never used what she bought - I mentioned this to an older friend at the time and he said “for some people, when they buy things, it’s like re-birth.”

 

[jsrockit]

I wonder how many cameras Minor White had?

More than you think I would imagine. A quick google search shows the Argus C3, 4x5" cameras, a Zeiss Ikonta, a Brownie, Kodak Duo-620, etc. It is very rare for any photographer to use only one camera.