Drones have the potential to force restrictions on public place photography

Hi,

Trouble is, drones and their controls are sophisticated devices and there's an old engineering rule that when something sophisticated goes wrong the result is a catastrophe. That's not what I'd like happening over my head. Or, worse still, with something carrying weaponry. I wouldn't like to be around or near someone who dropped a loaded shotgun for obvious reasons and these things are automated...

Regards, David

PS (An edit) Just looked at the UK rules (The Air Navigation Order 2009). It's at:- http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/3015/made

and a search for 167 or "Small unmanned surveillance aircraft" might cheer a few people up. Search for "Kites" and you'll believe the Taliban run this country. ;-)
 
hepcat

Any differences in our views (which I will speculate are essentially trivial) revolve around details about the definition of expectation in the legal phrase "expectation of privacy".
 
willie_901 said:
hepcat

Any differences in our views (which I will speculate are essentially trivial) revolve around details about the definition of expectation in the legal phrase "expectation of privacy".
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I suspect that you're right. I'm using the term as defined by various court decisions in the US. When you use the term and interpret it with a definition other than how the courts have defined it, you're setting yourself up for problems. That seems to be what other folks are doing... assigning a definition different from what is commonly accepted in and by law. When they diverge from that definition, their expectations are different and that leads to disappointment, and sometimes legal problems for them.

That's what leads me to say that essentially, a person has no right of privacy outside their own home with the curtains drawn. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in any public place, or place open to the public (like a shopping mall for example.)
 
I'll register my drone but will be interested to see how many get registered.
At this point it's just a database of owners. I'd hope they use the email addresses to send safety messages and regulation updates. I've been a fixed wing pilot for over twenty years and hoped the FAA would have a booklet on the rules that apply to drones and an online test regarding these rules that each new drone pilot would have to pass before getting their certificate. At the moment anyone applying for their certificate only as to give a few bits of information with no proof the applicant has even read the safety regulations.
 
x-ray said:
I'll register my drone but will be interested to see how many get registered.
At this point it's just a database of owners. I'd hope they use the email addresses to send safety messages and regulation updates. I've been a fixed wing pilot for over twenty years and hoped the FAA would have a booklet on the rules that apply to drones and an online test regarding these rules that each new drone pilot would have to pass before getting their certificate. At the moment anyone applying for their certificate only as to give a few bits of information with no proof the applicant has even read the safety regulations.
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The CB radio craze of the early '70s with FAA licensing issues comes immediately to mind. When they sell drones at Walmart and Toys R Us and they're being operated by unsupervised eight-year-olds, it's a safe bet that "licensing" isn't going to work.
 
hepcat said:
The CB radio craze of the early '70s with FAA licensing issues comes immediately to mind. When they sell drones at Walmart and Toys R Us and they're being operated by unsupervised eight-year-olds, it's a safe bet that "licensing" isn't going to work.
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Most drones sold are toys anyway. The cost of a moderate quality drone starts in the $600 range and goes up to mid $50K for something really serious. The ones requiring licensing are in that price range which will limit the audience buying them. Also like everything else the new will wear off especially after the crash one or it gets away from them. You only need to trash or lose one $600 drone to feel the pain.
 
The first drone I saw flying was last year. I was at a famous National Monument, in a crowd with hundreds of people. Then, with a insect like buzz, we all looked up to see this quad copter about 20 feet overhead. With a background in aerospace, intel, engineering, training, safety, and shooting I felt highly qualified to think "this is not good."

What happens when a drone fails or is flown into a toddler, cutting him? Or when a blade flies off, blinding someone? What about the noise, do people have to be subjected to someone's booming car bass speakers, or a chain saw being run at midnight? What about the fear factor of people that just don't feel comfortable with an aerial spy drone following them around, like the laser pointer episode on Seinfeld? Do the desires of the owner trump everyone else's desires? Have we become so ruthless that we revel in our obnoxious harassment, rationalizing that it's your "rights" to be an ass? What about when some idiot drone pilot get's one sucked up into a jetliner engine? Or causes a car crash?

I would never follow a pretty girl around the streets, getting into her personal space, distracting her activities with a bunch of noise, and being somewhat threatening. She would tell me to get lost, or have her boyfriend kick my butt. But just as people feel braver in their cars, acting like childish bullys on our streets, now the drone owners feel the same power, from afar. Yeah, buzz one of those damn things near me, and I'll take it out any way I can. Then you can come talk to me, in person, to get it back.
 
photomoof said:
I get buzzed all the time by the careless "rationalizing that it's their right to be an ass." Can't shoot at yellow cabs, sometimes wish I could.

Guess you could carry a bat?
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How close do they get and how often is all the time? Have you reported it to the police and FAA?
 
Some serious anxiety is emerging in this thread. Perhaps we have a phobia, adroneaphobia?
Adroneaphobia, the irrational fear of unmanned flying machines.

All joking aside I'm really surprised at some of the responses.
 
I've started exploring abandon industrial sites for a new series of images.
The first image is from the DNG raw file and the last two from in camera JPG's. The DNG produces superior images for sure.
 

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photomoof said:
What camera do you use? Whatever the Adroneaphobia suffers say, the images are really a great point of view.
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It's the built in camera in the DJI Phantom 3.

There's talk from a few that they would shoot drones down. You might rethink that because you might be on camera. The DJI and I think most sophisticated drones stream the video to the controlling device like the iPad or iPhone on the controller and it's recorded along with a flight log. I would make great evidence in court and the flight log provide a precise location for the police to pick the person up.
 
photomoof said:
Of course during drone hunting season it is OK? I have personally always found drone a bit chewy for my taste, and often because of what they eat, many contain mercury and lithium.

One has to be very careful when field dressing a drone, it can be dangerous if not done right. Drone hunters should wear rubber gloves, to avoid high voltage, few drones carry rabies.
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Where I live the Tennessee River Carp (AKA Bugle Mouth Bass) is highly prized (NOT). We often prepare them by nailing them to a cedar plank and roasting over an medium open fire for fifteen minutes. At the end of fifteen minutes we remove the carp and throw it away and eat the cedar plank. We find a lemon dill sauce enhances the flavor and is Complemented by a medium dry white wine. :eek:
 
x-ray said:
It's the built in camera in the DJI Phantom 3.

There's talk from a few that they would shoot drones down. You might rethink that because you might be on camera. The DJI and I think most sophisticated drones stream the video to the controlling device like the iPad or iPhone on the controller and it's recorded along with a flight log. I would make great evidence in court and the flight log provide a precise location for the police to pick the person up.
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I don't think anyone is serious about shooting down a drone, but I would gently advise you to think through the scenario you are describing.

First, you would have to rile up someone enough - and for so long - that they would go get a shotgun, load it, and take your drone down. If you are spending that much time in such close proximity to someone with a gun, there is a common sense issue. You might not get the footage because he might also get your iPad.

Second, you would have to have the chutzpah to report to the police that your drone got shot down over someone else's house (and don't laugh - lots of property crime - like theft of expensive bikes - goes unreported). Assuming that the police even responded, remember, you're the creep with the flying video surveillance rig flying over someone else's property. There is police discretion, and to get to court, you would need to satisfy prosecutorial discretion. If you are an outsider in some suburban community, good luck getting a local police department to prosecute a resident for defending him/herself against a perceived trespass. This, of course, assumes that someone was able to identify the shooter (which depending on population density could be quite tough).

Third, if you got to court, you'd have to get the footage into evidence, which depending on the circumstances, could be challenging. And in front of a judge or jury (let alone small-claims referee)? You're the creep with the flying video setup flying over someone else's property. And let's remember that in the only case where this was prosecuted, the case was dismissed. The only known civil case was one where there was an award because the drone was actually over the drone owner's land.

But consider what the logging and video footage can do to an operator:
  • It could serve as evidence in a felony illegal surveillance action against you (many states have laws against recording people where they have an expectation of privacy).
  • It could serve as evidence in an FAA proceeding that you illegally operated a drone (or operated one without a license) (note that under FAA's guide for law enforcement, they have a role in monitoring UASs).
  • It could serve as evidence in a civil trespass or invasion of privacy suit.
  • Evidence that you attempted to alter or destroy logging information after such an incident could bite you hard in a civil or criminal action.
I would add to this the observation that in most circumstances, logging is used most often against the person whose device is being logged.

This is not to say that people should shoot down drones, or that it's OK, but it is to say that common sense is more way important than some CSI-informed view of the world in which the GPS data leads someone right to a perp, prosecution, and reimbursement for a now-shredded drone. If I flew a drone over someone else's property, I would accept as a possible consequence that I might not ever see it again and would have no practical way to do anything about it. The mildest case would be a dead battery that causes an unexpected landing. And the worst?

And why are people steamed? You write it off as paranoia - but privacy is a longstanding right at common (and now civil) law, and people see drones as a potential invasion of same. Just as we had the whole glasshole thing with Google Glasses, so it is with quadcopters.

Dante
 
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