DSLR Scanning – Macro: 55mm vs 105mm

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MemphisMonroe

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Hello all, aren't we all constantly working on our scanner setups and techniques?

Well maybe not, but I definitely do.

Anyway yesterday I got a 55mm micro nikkor macro lens, I used a enlarger lens prior but I wouldn't recommend it.

So I have a lot better results with my setup now, but the thing is that I need a long extension tube and expand the helicoid pretty far to fill the frame with correct focus.

image.jpg


And I'm not really knowledgeable how magnifications, tubes and focal lengths works with macro photography.

But I wonder if a 105mm lens would be better? Wouldn't that mean I could fill the frame without tubes? Wouldn't be better to have a 105mm without tubes and have 1:1 then to have a 55mm at 1:2 with tubes?

I scan with a full frame Sony A7
 
I have used a 105mm macro lens and a 55mm macro lens for 1:1 macro slide copy. Either works. My personal preference is to use a Nikon PS-4 Slide Copy Attachment and a 55mm f/3.5 macro lens reverse mounted on Nikon PB-4 bellows.


Nikon Slide Copy by Narsuitus, on Flickr
 
Using the 55mm, at a 1:1 reproduction ratio, the lens to subject distance is 110mm and the lens to image sensor distance is 110mm.

Using the 105mm, at a 1:1 reproduction ratio, the lens to subject distance is 210mm and the lens to image sensor distance is 210mm.

The shorter distances of the 55 just works better with me for slide copy. If I were shooting live insects or snakes, the longer distances would be appreciated.
 
Thanks for your help, seems like I'm confusing focal length with magnification a bit.

So what I need to get rid of the tubes is a 1:1 lens, and if I want to get even closer to the negative I need a wider focal length?
 
Those seem like awfully complicated set ups.
I just use a Nikon DSLR + 60mm AF Macro Lens + ES-1 copier/film holder. 1:1 reproduction and auto focus works.
 
Huss said:
Those seem like awfully complicated set ups.
I just use a Nikon DSLR + 60mm AF Macro Lens + ES-1 copier/film holder. 1:1 reproduction and auto focus works.
Click to expand...

Thank you but I'm not to excited about exchanging my whole setup from scratch. Also I can't scan MF that way.
 
Huss said:
Those seem like awfully complicated set ups.
I just use a Nikon DSLR + 60mm AF Macro Lens + ES-1 copier/film holder. 1:1 reproduction and auto focus works.
Click to expand...

I have never used the Nikon ES-1 slide copy attachment but based on its specifications, it does look like a less complicated set up for copying 35mm slides. However, I am not sure it would do all the things I needed such as:
1. Copying mounted and unmounted slides
2. Copying film strips
3. Copying 35mm and 126 slide film
4. Copying portions of slides at higher reproduction ratios (such as 2:1 or 4:1)
5. Ability to adjust slide's up/down/right/left placement
6. Ability to work with a variety of lenses (the ES-1 was designed to work with a limited number of lenses)
7. Ability to work with a variety of lens extension methods (the ES-1 needs specific extension tubes to work with certain lenses)
8. Need to use equipment to shooting macros of subjects other than 35mm slides
 
micro nikkor 3,5/55 attached to a PEN F, with a stand of an old Durst enlarger, negative/slide on a light box. Very nice results.
 
I would like to change the topic a little bit.

Is it worth upgrading to a 1:1 instead of scanning with 1:2? Or is it completely unnecessary? I've read that some people say 1:2 isn't even macro and that it starts at 1:1

I mean, if you use an extension tube to double the magnification, aren't you "stretching" the image manually?
 
MemphisMonroe said:
...
Anyway yesterday I got a 55mm micro nikkor macro lens, I used a enlarger lens prior but I wouldn't recommend it.

So I have a lot better results with my setup now, but the thing is that I need a long extension tube and expand the helicoid pretty far to fill the frame with correct focus.

...And I'm not really knowledgeable how magnifications, tubes and focal lengths works with macro photography.

But I wonder if a 105mm lens would be better? Wouldn't that mean I could fill the frame without tubes? Wouldn't be better to have a 105mm without tubes and have 1:1 then to have a 55mm at 1:2 with tubes?

I scan with a full frame Sony A7
Click to expand...

I see you're using a Leica BEOON copy stand. This copy stand was designed for use with a 50mm lens, the effective range of focal lengths it works reasonably well with is from 45mm to 60mm. A 105mm Macro is too long a focal length for it to be useful ... You'd have to replace it with a good copy stand that allows you to get the correct subject to focal plane distance at the magnification useful for 35mm negative copying.

To obtain 1:1 with a 100mm lens takes twice the lens extension and images at twice the distance from the film/sensor plane, and the BEOON doesn't extend far enough to allow that.

I've done a good bit of negative copying with the BEOON using a Micro-Nikkor 55mm f/3.5 lens. Yes, you have to use the appropriate extension tubes, but it works very well. (It doesn't matter what camera body you use as long as it meets the Leica M-mount registration distance for infinity focus, with adapters, and can be mounted on the stand... I've used Sony A7, Leica M-P 240, Leica M-D 262, and Leica SL bodies. All work fine.)
 
narsuitus said:
I have never used the Nikon ES-1 slide copy attachment but based on its specifications, it does look like a less complicated set up for copying 35mm slides. However, I am not sure it would do all the things I needed such as:
1. Copying mounted and unmounted slides
2. Copying film strips
3. Copying 35mm and 126 slide film
4. Copying portions of slides at higher reproduction ratios (such as 2:1 or 4:1)
5. Ability to adjust slide's up/down/right/left placement
6. Ability to work with a variety of lenses (the ES-1 was designed to work with a limited number of lenses)
7. Ability to work with a variety of lens extension methods (the ES-1 needs specific extension tubes to work with certain lenses)
8. Need to use equipment to shooting macros of subjects other than 35mm slides
Click to expand...

1. It does that. Slides fit in normally, unmounted fit using negative solutions 35mm holder. The new ES-2 has all the appropriate holders.
2. It does that, and the ES-2 does it better with the film strip holder
3. 126 film? Don't know
4. You want to copy 35mm film at 4:1 ? Why? There is no resolution there. I'm using a D850 and at 1:1 the film res is maxed out.
5. You can do that
6. ES-1 was designed for 1:1 with 55 or 60mm lens.
7. ES-1 is $50. It is perfect for what it does
8. Use the lens, use an extension tube. Or just use the lens.
 
I use the Nikkor 55mm f2.8 lens with my Fuji XE2. Extension tubes for 35mm only.

I use an inverted tripod, spirit level to ensure everything nice and parallel. I do this in my small darkroom. I'm more than happy with the results which easily beat much of the professional scanning I've had done of film as it's been developed.

No experience of using the 105mm but in my set up I can't see it being an advantage
 
ACullen said:
...
No experience of using the 105mm but in my set up I can't see it being an advantage
Click to expand...


For duping, whether digitizing film or copying reflective print, longer focal lengths both help and hurt.
Cons:
  • Longer FLs mean more stability issues due to the physically greater body to lens extension and the increased height of the copy stand or tripod.
Pros:
  • Any slight warp to the film or print is less significant as it is a smaller percentage of the longer shooting distance.
  • Surface reflections are easier to control since the angle from lens to edge of the original is less when using a longer FL lens.
 
I have to agree with one of Dwig's pros - I used to use a 50 macro to copy slides using a bellows for extension, but now use an OM 80mm bellows lens after finding it gave me significantly better corner sharpness than with the shorter focal length macro.
 
MemphisMonroe said:
Thanks everyone, but the new question is if 1:1 is superior to 1:2 (with tubes)
Click to expand...

I would say 1:1 is superior. If you use a 55 micro Nikkor, then a PK13 extension tube will give you 1:1. I switched to a 40mm micro Nikkor on a D3300 body which gives me 1:1 without extension tubes and auto-focus to boot. Very good corner-corner sharpness and high contrast, too.
John Mc
 
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