AntonioC
Established
Hi everyone,
given the changes in the relationship between UK and EU taking place on Jan 1st 2021, what will happen to cameras sent to EU for repair?
Now we know there will be no custom duties, but what about VAT?
I’ve got a camera now being fixed in the EU, just wondering if I’ll be asked to pay VAT when getting it back. Value is approx 1000£.
Thanks
Antonio
given the changes in the relationship between UK and EU taking place on Jan 1st 2021, what will happen to cameras sent to EU for repair?
Now we know there will be no custom duties, but what about VAT?
I’ve got a camera now being fixed in the EU, just wondering if I’ll be asked to pay VAT when getting it back. Value is approx 1000£.
Thanks
Antonio
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
It's anybody's guess. Same goes the other way around, and I'd also like to know how dependable postal services and shipping times will be, before I send two Barnack Leicas to repair wizard Alan Starkie...
monopix
Cam repairer
I have the same concerns but I'm assuming that, if we won't be paying duty, we won't pay VAT either. But I haven't found anything that says that. In fact, I've not made sense of any of the information on-line, most of which applies to businesses not individuals. Maybe there's a tax expert amongst us who knows.
Nitroplait
Well-known
Duty and VAT are completely different things. A no duty trade relation between nations does NOT exempt you from paying local VAT.
I can't say how UK will handle imports, but here is an example of how it is handled today:
I live in Denmark (EU): If I buy an item from Norway (not EU but a free trade agreement) I have to pay Danish VAT on the whole value including VAT on postage upon arrival to Denmark.
If shipped with national postal services there will be an additional fee for the VAT processing, around €20. Some private shipping companies can do the VAT processing - but at a cost.
If I am to send an item to Norway for repair, I must document the value of what I send. If not it will be assumed I imported both the item and the value of the repair service. It is therefore essential to clarify with your customs what they require as evidence of your repair "export".
I can't say how UK will handle imports, but here is an example of how it is handled today:
I live in Denmark (EU): If I buy an item from Norway (not EU but a free trade agreement) I have to pay Danish VAT on the whole value including VAT on postage upon arrival to Denmark.
If shipped with national postal services there will be an additional fee for the VAT processing, around €20. Some private shipping companies can do the VAT processing - but at a cost.
If I am to send an item to Norway for repair, I must document the value of what I send. If not it will be assumed I imported both the item and the value of the repair service. It is therefore essential to clarify with your customs what they require as evidence of your repair "export".
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
The operation is likely to be similar in design to the current system but a lot more complicated in operation. That's why I made sure my M2 was returned from a service at van Manen in the Netherlands long before the year end.
As Nitroplait has said, the supplier will need to fill out a customs form, which they hopefully have some experience of. The code will have to be correct as will the value of the service supplied, on which VAT would normally be levied. If they fill in the value of the camera rather than the cost of repair you could be in a world of pain.
It will then either be the supplier (if Vat registered) adding the VAT and accounting for that to UK Customs and Excise, or the shipper (Royal Mail, DHL etc) on behalf of the end customer (with added fees).
Even items below the threshold for duty (£135) are liable for VAT in theory - if they are not zero rated for VAT (food, children's clothes etc).
I foresee much scope for disaster.
As Nitroplait has said, the supplier will need to fill out a customs form, which they hopefully have some experience of. The code will have to be correct as will the value of the service supplied, on which VAT would normally be levied. If they fill in the value of the camera rather than the cost of repair you could be in a world of pain.
It will then either be the supplier (if Vat registered) adding the VAT and accounting for that to UK Customs and Excise, or the shipper (Royal Mail, DHL etc) on behalf of the end customer (with added fees).
Even items below the threshold for duty (£135) are liable for VAT in theory - if they are not zero rated for VAT (food, children's clothes etc).
I foresee much scope for disaster.
tbhv55
Well-known
That's not surprising. The muppet who did so much, in the first place, to promote the mess in which we find ourselves, has also (supposedly) been 'in charge'
of the negotiations. Scant, unclear information is the best you're likely to get from HMG.
David Hughes
David Hughes
You can ring HMR&C and ask them but I'm just going to wait and see what happens in practice, which is often a lot different from the theory. And it's never the same twice.
FWIW, I'm wondering if I'll have to produce British receipts to get my Leica back into the country for free after a holiday...
Regards, David
FWIW, I'm wondering if I'll have to produce British receipts to get my Leica back into the country for free after a holiday...
Regards, David
Dralowid
Michael
I was brought up to always carry a camera receipt when 'going foreign', along with my green card and the petrol coupon books.
valdas
Veteran
Do you also carry receipts of all the things that you have with you or wear (e.g. shoes) as technically same rules should apply
At least where I live custom officers are not picky about anything without boxes, labels or any signs of packaging indicating it was bought on that particular foreign trip, but technically they can probably challenge anything. But seriously - if it is a 60 years old camera that was inherited or bought locally second had for cash from a person (not a shop) - what receipts could we have?
Dralowid
Michael
I was talking about a time when Leicas were currency
jgrainger
Established
It's an interesting topic.. I'm looking at buying a bit of gear from the EU..
In theory, the worst case scenario shouldn't be any more expensive than places further away - but will be surprised if the outcome is tidy, efficient, or at a price to beat the present situation.
In theory, the worst case scenario shouldn't be any more expensive than places further away - but will be surprised if the outcome is tidy, efficient, or at a price to beat the present situation.
jszokoli
Well-known
When I sent a camera for repair from the USA to the UK there was a specific customs form that I needed to fill out so there would be no VAT or duty charges.
Joe
Joe
lukx
Well-known
An interesting question, as I (EU citizen) currently have an M3 over at cameraworks-uk. Getting it there was no problem prior to Brexit, getting it back post Brexit will be more interesting.
In theory, shippings can be marked as "import for repair" and thus be exempt from any duties or taxes. I will find out sooner or later (probably later, given the Starkie's work load) and report back here.
In theory, shippings can be marked as "import for repair" and thus be exempt from any duties or taxes. I will find out sooner or later (probably later, given the Starkie's work load) and report back here.
Nitroplait
Well-known
Services may be exempt for duties but not VAT.
But it will be interesting how it will be handled. I suspect a messy transition period.
CharlesDAMorgan
Veteran
My money is on it being considerably messier with anything sent Royal Mail/Parcelforce than with courier firms. But that is based upon imports from outside the then EU over many years.
I'm currently watching the tracking of a large format lens I bought from Japan and shipped by Fedex. It appears to have cleared customs here without any requests for anything!* But then, a Russian lens just over the £135 was delivered by the Post Office just before Christmas with nothing levied.
I'm tempted to think that smaller items are getting through the net as resourcing is a big issue at present.
And is now at Launceston, just 20 miles away. Which is mildly annoying as I'll have to wait in for it.
I'm currently watching the tracking of a large format lens I bought from Japan and shipped by Fedex. It appears to have cleared customs here without any requests for anything!* But then, a Russian lens just over the £135 was delivered by the Post Office just before Christmas with nothing levied.
I'm tempted to think that smaller items are getting through the net as resourcing is a big issue at present.
And is now at Launceston, just 20 miles away. Which is mildly annoying as I'll have to wait in for it.
Spluff
Saras
Just to be clear, even now, before Brexit, suppliers in the EU have been charging you VAT on the repairs they have been undertaking (unless they are under their own country’s VAT Registration Threshold). So post Brexit, nothing will change.
However, if you’re asking if VAT will be charged by Royal Mail for handling, then I don’t think they will be (although I have to confess I haven’t looked up that specific provision in the new Trade Deal!!)
From outside of the EU, I have generally found packages through Royal Mail will attract a handling charge and VAT on new goods but on low value or secondhand, I’ve never had the problem (very much dependant on the customs form provided by the seller). Packages delivered by DHL etc seem to bypass the process altogether - and I prefer sellers to despatch that way anyway).
Of course in the new world, don’t put it past the Royal Mail to make up their own rules as they go along and them relying on customer inertia to not kick up a fuss - sigh!
However, if you’re asking if VAT will be charged by Royal Mail for handling, then I don’t think they will be (although I have to confess I haven’t looked up that specific provision in the new Trade Deal!!)
From outside of the EU, I have generally found packages through Royal Mail will attract a handling charge and VAT on new goods but on low value or secondhand, I’ve never had the problem (very much dependant on the customs form provided by the seller). Packages delivered by DHL etc seem to bypass the process altogether - and I prefer sellers to despatch that way anyway).
Of course in the new world, don’t put it past the Royal Mail to make up their own rules as they go along and them relying on customer inertia to not kick up a fuss - sigh!
valdas
Veteran
VAT isn't charged on exports of goods/services to countries outside the EU, so when UK is outside EU then EU repair shops should not charge VAT to customers outside EU (as they will be exporting). VAT in this case is charged and due in the country of import.
AntonioC
Established
The problem being repair shops would apply their VAT on the service provided. Customs would apply it on the item’s value, which is a completely different thing.
valdas
Veteran
What I am saying is that they are exporting the service, so they should not charge VAT at all. And customs should not apply the VAT on an item value as you are not buying the item. Therefore, the correct papers should be in place proving the item is coming from the repair.
johannielscom
Snorting silver salts
This.
To have it insured it will need to have its value stated, and customs will charge duties and VAT based on that value.
I really don't feel like paying a 200 € fee on my 1K camera that I owned before. And having to fill out forms that are either designed or read by muppets to circumvent that does not put my mind at ease either.
Think I'll be looking for a repairer in the EU, too bad really