E-M1 cost.

cosmonaut

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With some guessing the OMD E-M1 is going to come in around the $1500.00 range body only. I am curious is this going to be something you E-M5 users are going to be interested in? If so what feature(s) does it bring that is going to make the deal for you?
As for me I like it fine but a have no 4/3rd lenses left except the 14-54mm I use on my Panasonic L1 infrared converted camera. So other than it being new I don't see any added features that just stand out for me to make a move right on release day. Maybe down the road.
Is the OMD E-M1 overpriced? Compared to the others flagships with features? I personally think they all are a bit high.
 
Well, it's about $450 less than the full frame D600. Obviously full frame isn't everything, but it's certainly something. For me, it's crazy expensive. But m4/3 cameras, especially the Olympus ones always seem to start off pricey for the early adopters and then plummet in price soon afterwards. I'd give it 6 months or a year and get a bargain instead.
 
The Fuji xp1 started out over 1.5 years ago in the 1600 neighborhood if I remember correctly. Now it is selling around 1200.

The market will always self correct itself. I am sure the guys who want to be first inline will be causing it to stay high for a bit..

Gary
 
The E-M1 seems to be Olympus' new pro line camera, the fusion between the SLR and TTL-electronic camera that I've been expecting a long while. It's actually a little less expensive than I expected: Olympus pro-line cameras have usually retailed at $1800-$2000 or so on introduction.

I will wait for it to be available to handle in the flesh, but if it meets the promise of excellence that has been in all of Olympus pro-line cameras, it will prove a difficult choice for me to make between it and the also very interesting Panasonic GX7.

(I have my 11-22 and 35 Macro FourThirds lenses, which I use on the E-1 still. Between those two, and all the nice Leica R lenses I acquired recently, I have a full system kit, although I'll likely get one or another of the M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8 or Nokton 17mm f/0.95 to have that nice fast prime as well...)

G
 
The E-M1 seems to be Olympus' new pro line camera, the fusion between the SLR and TTL-electronic camera

Exactly right. Olympus is now taking aim at the DSLR market.

It's actually a little less expensive than I expected: Olympus pro-line cameras have usually retailed at $1800-$2000 or so on introduction.

Murderous competition.

. . . it will prove a difficult choice for me to make between it and the also very interesting Panasonic GX7.

Very different types . . . but then I am not sure what the GX7 is all about. The camera dimensions are surprising.

(I have my 11-22 and 35 Macro FourThirds lenses, which I use on the E-1 still. Between those two, and all the nice Leica R lenses I acquired recently, I have a full system kit, although I'll likely get one or another of the M.Zuiko 17mm f/1.8 or Nokton 17mm f/0.95 to have that nice fast prime as well...)

Well you must be relieved that Olympus is finally addressing the needs of 4/3 users such as yourself who were left high and dry by the company's march toward the small faux rangefinder Pen micro 4/3 cameras. Olympus has now come full circle. It will be interesting to see if they can now cut a share of the large camera/DSLR market with this new hybrid camera, which unlike their earlier m43 cameras is meant to replace the DSLR.
 
Very different types . . . but then I am not sure what the GX7 is all about. The camera dimensions are surprising.

It is what the gf1 should have originally grown up to be instead the gf2, etc. it is taking a page out of Sony Nex6 and Fuji XE1 for example, but w/ their version of ibis.. IMHO I think they have a good design. If the gx1 had come out after the gf1, I would never have left Panasonic m43.

Personally I like the new em1.. Just not sure I am going to ever buy one. There is just not enough info in the announcement for me to replace my em1 w/ it. I mainly use the em5 for legacy tele glass and long tele work w/ Panasonic zooms like the 45-200.

Gary
 
Btw.. I forgot to mention.. Yes I know the gf2 was an attempt to go after the less serious amateur as opposed to continuing down the path of a true gf1 follow on aim squarely at the serious amateur. They should have created a new product line for that. Instead they deluted the GF family for ages and finally came back to the roots of the gf1 w/ the gx1.

Gary
 
. . . it will prove a difficult choice for me to make between it and the also very interesting Panasonic GX7.
Very different types . . . but then I am not sure what the GX7 is all about. The camera dimensions are surprising.

I don't know why the GX7 dimensions are surprising. They've grown a camera that should fit my hands very nicely ... It's almost identical in size to my Ricoh GXR and Leica CL, with a nice grip and very clean controls. I see the GX7 to E-M1 differences as being almost exactly the differences between the Panasonic L1 and Olympus E-5 I had. Both superb cameras, but quite different in feel and aesthetics.

Well you must be relieved that Olympus is finally addressing the needs of 4/3 users such as yourself who were left high and dry by the company's march toward the small faux rangefinder Pen micro 4/3 cameras. Olympus has now come full circle. It will be interesting to see if they can now cut a share of the large camera/DSLR market with this new hybrid camera, which unlike their earlier m43 cameras is meant to replace the DSLR.

I wasn't left high and dry by anyone, and I was never worried. My FourThirds SLR lenses worked fine even on the Panasonic G1, with adapter. I've continued to use them with the E-1 and again with the E-PL1 I acquired recently.

I actually do find Olympus to be quite a credible company when it comes to their product development. They don't rush with their pro bodies ... and they do an excellent job. The E-1 is still a superb camera. The E-5 was brilliant. I'm sure the E-M1 will follow in the same footsteps.

G
 
Well you must be relieved that Olympus is finally addressing the needs of 4/3 users such as yourself who were left high and dry by the company's march toward the small faux rangefinder Pen micro 4/3 cameras. Olympus has now come full circle. It will be interesting to see if they can now cut a share of the large camera/DSLR market with this new hybrid camera, which unlike their earlier m43 cameras is meant to replace the DSLR.

it seems in retrospect that Olympus did the right thing. they always promised an updated pro body for their 4/3 lenses and eventually that has happened but maybe not the way everyone expected. still it is another system abandoned by Olympus. i wonder at what point did they decide to go all in on m4/3 and stop any further development on 4/3 while keeping a fascade of selling 4/3 equipment. i do regard Olympus Digital fondly, i almost bought an E-520.
 
it seems in retrospect that Olympus did the right thing. they always promised an updated pro body for their 4/3 lenses and eventually that has happened but maybe not the way everyone expected. still it is another system abandoned by Olympus. i wonder at what point did they decide to go all in on m4/3 and stop any further development on 4/3 while keeping a fascade of selling 4/3 equipment. i do regard Olympus Digital fondly, i almost bought an E-520.

I think the signal sent when Olympus cancelled all but the E-5 of their DSLR range and added two more lines to the TTL-electronic range was very clear: 'The future is going to be TTL-electronic models. We will continue to produce and sell our top of the line DSLR body and DSLR lens line until such time as we have filled out the TTL-electronic lens line and can produce the responsiveness and quality in that line of bodies that our professional customers require.' They as much as said that, almost literally, in several of the interviews that happened around that same time.

I have to say that I'm very impressed with Olympus' development progress. The SLR lens line was as complete as it needed to be some years ago. They sensibly designed the Micro-FourThirds lens mount to be 100% compatible via adapter with the FourThirds lens mount, and supported full function from the very start. They've expanded the range of camera offerings from the very diminutive to the "pro size" nicely, and have shrunk the "pro size" from what it once was. They've pushed for better and better EVF technology all the way through, and the incorporation of PDAF into the sensor should fill in the last remaining focusing performance gaps.

If the E-M1 achieves 80% of the marketing hype and fantasies of the enthusiasts, it will be a serious winner on many fronts.

But always remember: No one camera will EVER do everything right for every photographer. Ever.

G
 
But always remember: No one camera will EVER do everything right for every photographer. Ever.

G

This is true but what Olympus did is very strange anyway. Producing a professional system means (in my opinion) to give a tool for working to professional photographers who need to be more or less where other photographers are in order to sell their products. Maybe they don't really need this from a image quality point of view but perhaps they do to market themselves as professionals. Stopping the DSLR when the EVF was not a mature technology (in a sense it is not completely mature even now) means that many photographers will have to change their system at least for the years necessary to fill the gap. I don't think I am making it up that the EVF technology is not up to top of the line DSLR as far as autofocus response concerns. Also, if we do speak of image quality, for all the progress sensor did the size advantage of FF is still there. Finally, what they did, with lines being "freezed" without stopping production but also without any visible development might have stopped other brands producing "pro" products into making their products for Olympus. Tokina makes great ultrawide zooms for Nikon and Canon, not for Olympus, PocketWizard makes triggers for Nikon and Canon, not for Olympus, Sigma didn't produce the new f1.8 zoom for 4/3 (ok, it's not a real professional lens but it is nice one can use it if one happens to like it) , Zeiss lenses are there for Nikon and Canon but not for Olympus, not to speak about their system which might include some sweet lens but if far from complete...the list could go on forever and these are all things that push people using the camera for work into other systems.
No camera will ever do everything fine for all photographers, that's why people speak of "systems" not just cameras, you might need a D800e for studio work and a D4 for fast action but you don't need to buy all lenses, flashes, triggers twice and you can still use any of these cameras as a back-up for the other.

GLF
 
I will wait for it to be available to handle in the flesh, but if it meets the promise of excellence that has been in all of Olympus pro-line cameras, it will prove a difficult choice for me to make between it and the also very interesting Panasonic GX7.

I thought GX7 was interesting too, but primarily because of the built-in viewfinder that I wished were in the E-P5.

But if I were to get a new system camera, I'd take the EM-1 + 12-40mm lens in a heartbeat.
 
If Sigma designed the Oly 75, it's a real credit to them.

I have not hit any buy it now button with Sigma products yet but everything I saw and read recently seems to show that they are becoming a brand to look closely, the 18-35 I mentioned is one of the product I am increasingly tempted to buy, not to mention the Foevon stuff, if they only manage to make software to handle their files. If it comes out that some of the Zuiko lenses are made by them I am even more interested...

GLF
 
In the late 80s when I bought my first Sigma lens, I was far from impressed.. Fast forward today, with my experience using the various foveon based cameras including dp and sd series, I really think they have come a long way. With any company over the years, u are going have dogs as well as some great lenses. The ones they designed for the dp series, I really love. The lenses for the slr line, a lot depends on when it was made.

I love the 17-70f2.8-4 and the 70f2.8 macro I have.. The other lenses that i have bought for the sd1m are fine, but not at the same level as these two... They are constantly improving the design of their lenses. An example, I have read the 30f1.4 is not as good in the corners but then a month later I read a blog posting from lensrental.com, that compared the older one w/ the new one that was just released.. Basicaly saying that the new one solved the issue w/ the corners.

If I look at what they have been doing the last couple of years, I really think they are pushing the envelop more then others in their industry.

Whether they really made the Olympus lens or not, who knows, as I said purely speculation...

Gary
 
Interesting set of assertions.

Producing a professional system ...

There's no such thing as a "professional system", but there is such a thing as a "professional quality system". Nitpicky semantics, I know. IMO a professional quality system has these attributes:

- It is robust and durable.
- It provides a wide range of options for versatility.
- It provides the range of customizations and settings appropriate for a wide range of uses.
- Photos made with a professional quality system have quality that meets the needs of the working pro photographer.

"Keeping up with the other guys" is a modern vogue amongst faux pro photographers, IMO. True pros select gear that does the job they need, at the quality level they want, and just use it. They don't want constant equipment turnover ... it's a pain to depreciate a camera in less than three years as a business expense.

Stopping the DSLR when the EVF was not a mature technology (in a sense it is not completely mature even now) means that many photographers will have to change their system at least for the years necessary to fill the gap.

The didn't stop all their DSLR manufacture ... They kept the pro grade model in production. They discontinued the lower end models which were no longer selling due to the rise in popularity of the TTL-electronic cameras, and their obvious quality and customer satisfaction.

They did exactly what I would have done if I were a company facing a technological transition. No one needed to change their systems at all ... if they were sensible, they just kept on shooting with what they had and waited for the development of the next generation. Most people today are impatient, that's all

I don't think I am making it up that the EVF technology is not up to top of the line DSLR as far as autofocus response concerns.

"EVF technology" has nothing to do with the autofocus response speed. Neither does an optical reflex viewfinder. They're completely separate systems.

The TTL-electronic cameras have all used CDAF focusing technology up until now, which uses a high resolution sensor and shuffles the focus setting back and forth quickly to establish the highest contrast point. Optical SLR cameras use PDAF focusing technology, which uses a low resolution sensor to acquire contrast data based on a translation to phase from two separated points, and tells the lens to move the focus point to a specific place.

It takes less time and energy to do PDAF focusing as you are moving the lens less and not re-evaluating results at every incremental focus point.

The watershed upon us is that the E-M1 incorporates PDAF sensing elements directly into the main imaging sensor, so it can drive lenses to a specific focus point very quickly and use CDAF to finesse the accuracy as needed. Olympus presumption in releasing this as the replacement for their pro camera seems to me to be that they have licked the TTL-mirrorless AF focusing performance problem by this new technology and it enables them to move on to TTL-mirrorless even with their pro grade camera, which is exactly what they said they would do.

Also, if we do speak of image quality, for all the progress sensor did the size advantage of FF is still there.

There are so many myths and words about sensor size I'm not going to get into it. Suffice it to say that there have always been smaller and larger formats in photography, each with their advantages and disadvantages. There is no absolute measure of image quality to a buyer's eyes.

Finally, what they did, with lines being "freezed" without stopping production but also without any visible development might have stopped other brands producing "pro" products into making their products for Olympus.

They so much as said they weren't going to develop more SLRs and were going to concentrate on bringing the TTL-electronic bodies up to their pro grade, and also that they were going to concentrate on making the lenses that the market desired. It makes no sense to try to design fast, compact, short focal length lenses for the DSLR system that they already said was on the way out. So while they produced a bunch of nice Pens and a nice portfolio of excellent lenses, in the background they worked on their pro camera that would fuse the two systems.

Tokina makes great ultrawide zooms for Nikon and Canon, not for Olympus, PocketWizard makes triggers for Nikon and Canon, not for Olympus, Sigma...

I'm not going to get into the discussion of third source lenses. As a professional, I'm only interested in the manufacturers' lens lines, and Olympus-branded lenses are amongst the best in the business. I see there's some rumor that Sigma did the design on the 75/1.8 ... if so, that's cool. Sigma's always done good lens designs, and usually mucked it up with variable construction quality. Olympus has only rarely made such an error.

Other accessories ... third party accessories ... are market driven. Nikon and Canon have over 85% of the camera equipment market in the still photography world, so it's natural that third party suppliers concentrate on them.

For my business, I chose Pentax first as they were affordable. I had a business liaison with Pentax USA for a time. I moved to Panasonic and Olympus because the cameras and lenses were more reliable, more durable, and performed as well or better for my needs. When I closed the business, I sold the equipment I no longer needed (the E-5 and three of my five lenses), kept what I wanted for my personal and art projects, and bought other stuff because I enjoy the diversity of equipment.

It's a hobby now, and a passion. It's good to be free of the professional burden. ;-)

G
 
Looking back on the OMD when I had one it was a great camera but it felt like a toy. If this has similar performance but with less of that feeling it will be a brilliant camera.
 
Interesting set of assertions.

There's no such thing as a "professional system", but there is such a thing as a "professional quality system". Nitpicky semantics, I know. IMO a professional quality system has these attributes:

- It is robust and durable.
- It provides a wide range of options for versatility.
- It provides the range of customizations and settings appropriate for a wide range of uses.
- Photos made with a professional quality system have quality that meets the needs of the working pro photographer.

"Keeping up with the other guys" is a modern vogue amongst faux pro photographers, IMO. True pros select gear that does the job they need, at the quality level they want, and just use it. They don't want constant equipment turnover ... it's a pain to depreciate a camera in less than three years as a business expense.


....

G

So true, so true.

Pros buy what works for them in pairs (at least) and use the gear until it falls apart.

If a new project comes along that requires something else, they just rent what they need and charge the client.

When a real game changer arrives on the scene, they will upgrade when it makes good business sense. Otherwise they could care less. I know sports pros who switched to the Nikon D3 because the AF system humiliated Canons at that time. They got more keepers with the D3. I know wedding pros who switched to the Canon 5D because it was profoundly superior in low light than Nikon's offerings back then. The prints from the Canon looked better and clients spent more money.
 
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