E43 Pre Asph Summilux 50mm V E46 Pre Asph Summilux

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Geoffsco

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I'm looking at picking up a pre-asph 50mm Summilux. I've looked at quite a few images made with this lens, and love the character. I presume most I've looked at were made with the E43 version, since it was in production so long.

I'm tempeted by the E46 version, mainly for the closer focus distance, and am aware the coatings were changed.

Is there a significant difference between the two lenses? Please post photos!

Thanks,
Geoff
 
The biggest difference, functionally, is that the e46 version can focus down to .7 meters, versus 1 meter for the e43 version.
 
I've tried both and saw no significance in coatings between the V2 E43 and E46 versions despite claims to the contrary especially V2's from the early 70's when the black anodized finish was well underway. I did find the build quality of the V2 a bit better in that it's construction seemed more "tank-like" than the E46.
 
You can assume coating to have changed throughout its lifetime, not only from E43 to E46.

I tried both and am keeping the E43 version now. It does feel a little more robust (black anodized), and I like the longer throw on the M3.

Pain to get filters though (with original hood). ND filters you have to make yourself (marry a Leica with a Hoya filter). E46 is much easier.

One thing nobody ever mentions: that lens is very sharp in the picture center wide open - I was surprised. As good as a v1 Summicron. Then strong fall-off to the corners, like a Sonnar, with Lux "paint-blotchy" bokeh; real nice. Very similar to its bigger sister, the 75.

Roland.
 
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ferider said:
One thing nobody ever mentions: that lens is very sharp in the picture center wide open - I was surprised. As good as a Summicron.

Roland.
Click to expand...

Sharp in the center is a common trait of earlier & pre-asph lenses. This was the goal for PJ lenses. Now, design technology has advanced to where the lenses are sharp corner-to-corner.
 
The E43 version is smaller and quite compact, it is very well built but focuses to 1m and has an external hood. The E46 is a bit larger, and it is well built with different lens coatings, and it focuses to ,7m and has an attached, sliding hood. Having used both I found no optical difference, and my Leica Lens book tells me that v2 and v3 are identical optically, so it confirms most user's experience. As Tim wrote, the ,7m close focus is the big difference for most in favour of the E46 version. But for me, the E43 version's compactness was a charm. If I didn't really care about the close focus in my shooting, the E43 version would be my preferred version just because of the compactness and sweet handling of the E43. Unfortunately for me the ,7m close focus is pivotal in my shooting with 35s and 50s.
 
How much shorter is the focus throw of the e46 to the e43? This, and the closer focus distance are important to me.

I'm looking for a more practical 50mm lens, I currently use a Noctilux. Until recently, I mostly used a 35mm, and the Noctilux just for low light. Over the last few months I've been using the 50mm mostly, but the size and weight of the Noctilux, as well as the long focus throw, is becoming annoying. The 1m minimum focus distance is ok most of the time, but occasionally I want to focus closer.

A 50mm Summicron may be a more sensible choice, but I love the character of the pre asph Summilux, and prices seem to be not too much higher.
 
It's a few months since I had both together but as I recall the throw of the E46 is much shorter than that of the E43, maybe not half but not far off. I too wanted the 0.7M closest focus and shorter throw. The filter thread on the E43 can cause problems as it has a pitch of 0.5mm, much tighter than most modern filters. Some filters bind on the E43 and there are one or two threads here on the issue. The E46 has one of Leica's useless slide-out hoods, I use a heavystar 46mm wide on mine and that solved the problem. My E46 is brass so the build quality is very solid and they are made in both silver chrome and black paint finishes. After selling the E43 the E46 cost an extra $450 and that was worth it to me. I cannot see a difference in the way they render images, but I do prefer using the E46.
 
The focus throw on the E43 (from inf to 1m) is 180 degrees. Don't remember the E43 - maybe somebody else can comment. Again, long throw is good for a fast lens, in my opinion. I like to have usable f2 DOF marks, among others.

Roland.
 
Hi Peter

Hi Peter

I read your previous posts on this, and never had the issue with my '60s, that was previously owned by a forum member, and is now owned by another forum member.

It fit any 43mm filter or screw in hood that I could find, and that fit the Nokton 40/1.4, and Canon lenses that have 40-43 adapters on them, incl. all stuff from Hakuba Japan or Ebay (heavy2stars) adapters.

Roland - the Hakuba Japan 4xND filter is the way to go. I can send you one if you like, grabbed some extras. It's used on every 40/1.4 image here (later ones that weren't taken with CV 21/4) in same set.

peter_n said:
It's a few months since I had both together but as I recall the throw of the E46 is much shorter than that of the E43, maybe not half but not far off. I too wanted the 0.7M closest focus and shorter throw. The filter thread on the E43 can cause problems as it has a pitch of 0.5mm, much tighter than most modern filters. Some filters bind on the E43 and there are one or two threads here on the issue. The E46 has one of Leica's useless slide-out hoods, I use a heavystar 46mm wide on mine and that solved the problem. My E46 is brass so the build quality is very solid and they are made in both silver chrome and black paint finishes. After selling the E43 the E46 cost an extra $450 and that was worth it to me. I cannot see a difference in the way they render images, but I do prefer using the E46.
Click to expand...
 
Cool!

Cool!

Is it easily removable?

I'm thinking of trying a circ polarizer if I have the right step up rings for an adjustable ND effect (with probably side effects) as an experiment.

ferider said:
Thanks a lot Ted, but I have now a Hoya ND8 HMC inside a Leica E43 frame :)
Click to expand...
 
throw on e46 is about 110 deg.

throw on e46 is about 110 deg.

for my b.p. s/n 401... E46 pre-asph.

ferider said:
The focus throw on the E43 (from inf to 1m) is 180 degrees. Don't remember the E43 - maybe somebody else can comment. Again, long throw is good for a fast lens, in my opinion. I like to have usable f2 DOF marks, among others.

Roland.
Click to expand...
 
ampguy said:
I read your previous posts on this, and never had the issue with my '60s, that was previously owned by a forum member, and is now owned by another forum member.

It fit any 43mm filter or screw in hood that I could find, and that fit the Nokton 40/1.4, and Canon lenses that have 40-43 adapters on them, incl. all stuff from Hakuba Japan or Ebay (heavy2stars) adapters.
Click to expand...
Yes, mine took any Hoya filter perfectly, and I think it may have been a tolerance issue with some filters. I also use the LHSA version 50/1.4 ASPH and that is a replica of the v.1 Summilux right down to the E43 with the tight pitch. The same filters won't go on that lens either... :(
 
I've tried Hoya and B+W filters on the E43 and they both work. Conversely, the Leica filters do not fit other E43 lenses (like the 35 Nokton). Problem is the original Leica hood that only goes over the original Leica filters. Of course with a generic hood there is no problem but it makes the lens less compact.

Note that old Nikkor lenses have the same 0.5 pitch as the E43 Lux.

Ted: Leica and Hoya filters have spanner rings. So if the glass is not too thick, one can move it from Hoya into Leica frames.

Roland.
 
E43 first generation. No comments - just pics)

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3928616616_f997c4c989_o.jpg

3862840560_8ae4638d7d_o.jpg
 
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