xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
No it is real thin common leather on 1972 or earlier Kiev RF cameras, unless it has been re-covered later on by the owner with some other non-leather material.
I own about ten Kiev RF cameras, the majority of them made in 1972 or earlier and with the original body covering on the 1972 or earlier models and it is real black leather and of not bad quality for a USSR product.
Just like the quality of the Kiev RF all leather ever-ready cases before those made for the 4M and 4AM Kievs are actually better quality leather than the brittle and dry leather used for the Zeiss Contax IIa and IIIa cameras.
Check it out yourself if you don't believe me.
nukecoke
⚛Yashica
I thought it was sheepskin?
I didn't know it was real leather until I got my first 1960s KIEV-4a in my hands. My first thought was: My, this is really overkill for a massively produced camera.
steveyork
Well-known
I owned a '51 and '52 Kiev II with the same year Jupiter 8s, as well as a serviced '36 Contax II and a '36 collapsible Sonnar. As some of you know, there are a few minor cosmetic differences between a Contax and Kiev, and the Jupiter lenses are coated. The Kiev spindles are different, and result in overlapping frames. Fixed by using a post war Contax IIa/Contaflex plastic spindle. The serviced Contax II I owned is also louder then the Kiev's. The viewfinders and the rangefinder patch were pretty much the same. Never had the cameras opened, but I sold the Kievs and kept the Contax.
Surprisingly, I weighed each camera, and they were the same, to the gram. I have multiple Leicaflex SL and each vary a few grams. Funny tidbit of useless trivia.
Surprisingly, I weighed each camera, and they were the same, to the gram. I have multiple Leicaflex SL and each vary a few grams. Funny tidbit of useless trivia.
steveyork
Well-known
No, by the early 50's the old Zeiss Ikon parts were used up. I think my '51 Kiev II may have had a Zeiss shutter speed dial, but that was it. At least from what I can tell by looking at the exterior. Subtle differences when looking at a Kiev and Contax side by side.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
Also, parts would be taken from German stock and then made on the German machinery and then the tools would wear out and that would be a chance to change things slightly; f'instance the feathers on the arrows and so on.
Also 1954 onwards was post Stalinist and attitudes may have changed or be changing...
Regards, David
Also, parts would be taken from German stock and then made on the German machinery and then the tools would wear out and that would be a chance to change things slightly; f'instance the feathers on the arrows and so on.
Also 1954 onwards was post Stalinist and attitudes may have changed or be changing...
Regards, David
Grytpype
Well-known
Perhaps you have examined it more closely than I have.
However I have de-bumped several Contax, and I know what leather looks like. I have removed the covering from a Kiev 3a and used it on a Kiev 2a, and it was exactly the same material as on another 3a, another 2a, and a 1967 Kiev 4 and it looked nothing like leather to me.
Leather as it the surface wears gets a brown 'antiquey' look. The black surface of the Kiev covering flakes off. Leather doesn't do this.
I think we will have to agree to differ on this one!
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
"I think we will have to agree to differ on this one
Elmar Lang
Well-known
Hello,
I recall that it was thoroughly studied what happened with the machinery to make the Kiev: the Zeiss plant where the Contax was made, although damaged, still had parts and tools for a limited production, during the Allied occupation.
Soon, at the arrival of the Soviets, they immediately ordered the dismantling of the plants and machinery for war reparation, with evident lack of attention: at the end, with the care of the Zeiss personnel the crates containing the Contax tools were sent to the USSR, where during the transport, they've been firstly partially damaged and at their arrival, mixed and made unfit for production.
The Soviets wanted new production lines/tools to be made at Zeiss care: this marks the birth of the "Jena Contax": actually a camera made to try the new production tools re-made by Zeiss, starting from actual pre/wartime cameras and the available spare parts.
To be more sure of the success of the operation, the soviets wanted not only the machinery, but also the necessary personnel, "volunteering" to train the Soviet workers and to supervise the quality of the production. We shouldn't forget the immense effort made by the remaining Zeiss personnel and technicians (many were taken to the West already, not speaking about casualties and those simply unable to continue their job) to re-set a production line for what was perhaps the most complicate 35mm. RF camera ever made.
The "1947" Kiev is the sound proof of this process: it was made with the new Zeiss tools, made to produce a Contax (it needs just to take a look on the reverse of the front plate, where the "Contax" name is still visible in negative and other details: they weren't wartime remains, but new parts, made with the new tools).
In those difficult months it was also unsure whether the camera's name should have been still Contax, or Volga, or Kiev... or whatever recalling the definitive place where the production should have started.
The solution to the turmoils in Ukraine, confirmed Kiev as the place where to produce the "new" camera.
Besides this historical note (still subject to update and revision though), it's clear that the first batches of Kievs were made under the direct control of the Zeiss personnel moved to Kiev. It is also known that the Soviet technicians were very well trained and specialized, the main problem stays in the "political" direction of the plant: it was requested a very high rate of production. The germans, repeatedly explained that due to the complexity of the Contax, a faster production rate was almost impossible, but they had to accept what the Party representatives wanted, at least partially, not arriving to the humanly/technically impossible rate requested at the beginning.
My 1947 Kiev, actually "is" a Contax-II of the "Jena" type, where even the chrome finish, looks alike (or it's just a little better); the Kievs from 1950 to 1955 are extremely well finished, except the leather, that's very thin and frail, not being the "Feinstes Saffianleder" of Zeiss's specifications.
I need to say that my first Kiev, a 1968-made 4A bought 4 decades ago, has an incredibly accurate finish and the leather cover is made with an extremely fine, perfectly tanned, black morocco leather; a finish I've already noticed on other 4A, made between 1968 and the early 1969.
Reading the original instruction booklets, it's clearly written that the Kiev camera was considered a highest class instrument, made for the use of professionals.
Best wishes,
Enzo (E.L.)
I recall that it was thoroughly studied what happened with the machinery to make the Kiev: the Zeiss plant where the Contax was made, although damaged, still had parts and tools for a limited production, during the Allied occupation.
Soon, at the arrival of the Soviets, they immediately ordered the dismantling of the plants and machinery for war reparation, with evident lack of attention: at the end, with the care of the Zeiss personnel the crates containing the Contax tools were sent to the USSR, where during the transport, they've been firstly partially damaged and at their arrival, mixed and made unfit for production.
The Soviets wanted new production lines/tools to be made at Zeiss care: this marks the birth of the "Jena Contax": actually a camera made to try the new production tools re-made by Zeiss, starting from actual pre/wartime cameras and the available spare parts.
To be more sure of the success of the operation, the soviets wanted not only the machinery, but also the necessary personnel, "volunteering" to train the Soviet workers and to supervise the quality of the production. We shouldn't forget the immense effort made by the remaining Zeiss personnel and technicians (many were taken to the West already, not speaking about casualties and those simply unable to continue their job) to re-set a production line for what was perhaps the most complicate 35mm. RF camera ever made.
The "1947" Kiev is the sound proof of this process: it was made with the new Zeiss tools, made to produce a Contax (it needs just to take a look on the reverse of the front plate, where the "Contax" name is still visible in negative and other details: they weren't wartime remains, but new parts, made with the new tools).
In those difficult months it was also unsure whether the camera's name should have been still Contax, or Volga, or Kiev... or whatever recalling the definitive place where the production should have started.
The solution to the turmoils in Ukraine, confirmed Kiev as the place where to produce the "new" camera.
Besides this historical note (still subject to update and revision though), it's clear that the first batches of Kievs were made under the direct control of the Zeiss personnel moved to Kiev. It is also known that the Soviet technicians were very well trained and specialized, the main problem stays in the "political" direction of the plant: it was requested a very high rate of production. The germans, repeatedly explained that due to the complexity of the Contax, a faster production rate was almost impossible, but they had to accept what the Party representatives wanted, at least partially, not arriving to the humanly/technically impossible rate requested at the beginning.
My 1947 Kiev, actually "is" a Contax-II of the "Jena" type, where even the chrome finish, looks alike (or it's just a little better); the Kievs from 1950 to 1955 are extremely well finished, except the leather, that's very thin and frail, not being the "Feinstes Saffianleder" of Zeiss's specifications.
I need to say that my first Kiev, a 1968-made 4A bought 4 decades ago, has an incredibly accurate finish and the leather cover is made with an extremely fine, perfectly tanned, black morocco leather; a finish I've already noticed on other 4A, made between 1968 and the early 1969.
Reading the original instruction booklets, it's clearly written that the Kiev camera was considered a highest class instrument, made for the use of professionals.
Best wishes,
Enzo (E.L.)