Early Kievs in non communist countries

[xayraa33]

Has anyone got any idea as when, and to which ,non communist countries got the first Kiev cameras and lenses as exports from the USSR.... I would guess around 1955 ,with the intro of the Kiev 2a, but to which non communist countries?

 

[FrankS]

My guess is none, but I could be way off.

 

[dexdog]

Perhaps sweden and switzerland, countries with a long history of neutrality in international political affairs. Finland is another possibility, although this country was subject to force majuere from the USSR.

dexdog

 

[wlewisiii]

I believe that because of the close ties between the two Zeiss companies, some of these cameras and lenses were available in West Germany quite early. Even after the lawsuits, there was still more cooperation than was otherwise typical of the era.

William

 

[FrankS]

William, do you really think that after WW2 and the division of Germany, that W. Germany would have anything to do with the USSR? I don't think so. This is a political question, not a business arrangement between 2 companies, one of which was forced unwillingly to cooperate as a form of war repairations.

(Just my gut reaction, not based on any facts.)

 

[wlewisiii]

There was an enormous amount of cooperation between the two entities. This may not seem reasonable to us today, but it was fact in that place and time. There was, IIRC, an agreement under which Zeiss sold Jena lenses in the west. Perhaps I am misremembering, but it wasn't always at the buttstock of a gun...

William

 

[Seele]

During the earlier days of the partitioning of Germany, the Zeiss group in the American zone was still not quite up to speed, and had to rely on the products and technology of the original works in the Soviet zone. Lenses from Jena were supplied not only to camera manufacturers in Dresden but to Stuttgart, and other companies as well. I have a copy of the lens catalogue from Jena, from 1954 I think, listing versions of lenses supplied to various camera manufacturers. In the east, they included Certo, Ihagee, KW, Balda (to be renamed Belca as Balda re-established in Bunde), Primar (Curt Bentzin), Welta, and Zeiss Ikon Dresden. In the west, Arnold & Richter (Arri), Berning (Robot), F&H (Rollei), Linhof, and Zeiss Ikon Stuttgart. It also listed the Flektoscop mirror housing for the Contax, and of course, later on, Jena developed the Flektometer which offered unreversed finder image, which neither Stuttgart nor Oberkochen could achieve.

This cooperation between the Zeiss companies across the political railroad track carried on until the new establishments in the west gradually got up to speed with developing their own technology and production facilities.

 

[VinceC]

It took several years for the zonal boundaries of Germany to solidify into a geopolitical partition, so it wouldn't have been clear to Zeiss company members exactly when they were supposed to stop cooperating. But I don't think you should compare cooperation between the two Zeiss entities to a wider Soviet/German cooperation. The Contax II and III tooling was, after all, commandeered as war booty and set up in a new factory hundreds of miles away as a purely Soviet-made product.

 

[xayraa33]

The Soviets commandeered a few Zeiss technicians also, some were still at the Arsenal factory till the mid nineteen fifties. they helped & advised the Soviet techs with the Kiev , Moskva cameras, photo lenses, binoculars, & military/naval rangefinders, assembly group setups (assembly line? ) and with the general and specialized techniques in the manufacture of these optical devices.

 

[Azinko]

Russian/Soviet equipement was imported into the UK from the post war period. Most of this was distrubuted thru a company called 'Technical and Optical Equipment Ltd' which I beleive was wholly owned by the Soviet Government thru their Uk trade consulate. 'T&OE' also had a large shop in 'High Holben', a central street in Central London. Soviet cameras were big sellers and after some problems with quality control 'T&OE' were abble to get speciall stocks of improved quality for the FED and Kiev ranges,...they also produced their own instruction books which were vastly better than the Soviet ones. I have heard that the cameras sent to the UK were also better finished. If I remember, there is more info on keith Berry's kiev site about this including a copy of 'T&OE' instruction book.

 

[xayraa33]

Yes, T &OE was not formed until 1962 , they were in a bulding called Zenith house,a lot of the gear they got from the FSU was adjusted & made usable there. it goes to show you that a lot of the goods had quality control issues, even in the early sixties. still though. it was a way to get a decent camera with a good lens at a price that a working person could afford.

 

[Seele]

I remember T&OE quite well having lived in London in the eighties; the ground floor of Zenith House being the shop full of cameras, microscopes, telescopes, binoculars and various products. By and large, Britain was quite open to products from countries on the "other side", not only the Soviet Union, but also photographic equipment from DDR and Poland, motorcycles from DDR and Czechoslovakia, etc etc.

 

[arothaus]

Hello,

I can't remember where - but I've read that already in the mid 50ies USSR Cameras were sold in Sweden.

I do not think that they were sold in West-Germany. Many East-German cameras were sold in West-Germany. I have a few West-German photomagazins from the 50ies here - they offered a lot of Jena and Dresden stuff but nothing from the USSR.

Regards,
Andreas

 

[FrankS]

All of this information surprises me. I would have thought that the Soviet Union was more isolated in terms of trade with capitalistic countries. Live and learn. (Well at least you grow old.)

 

[Roman]

Well, we did not have a McCarthy over here...
And don't forget, here in central Europe, many people had familial ties across what was turning into the Iron Curtain (I guess half of the people here in Vienna have Bohemian, Slovakian or Hungarian ancestors, and in Germany it's the same with then-Eastern Germany, Poland, etc.). And also, in the 1950s people were still rather poor, so they had to buy what was cheap, and the Eastern Bloc states provided that - not only stuff like cameras, but also everyday stuff like kitchen utensils, tools, etc.

Roman

 

[xayraa33]

Years back I bought a few Photo magazines at the Toronto Camera show, all these were from the mid to late 1950s ( yes , they had to be,.... the golden age of the rangefinder 35mm) . I would look at the ads, for the Nikon S2, SP, Canon L1, VT etc, at the back of these magazines, they had ads for the Tanack camera for $ 89.95, Leotax F for a little more money , all the lesser brands. one small ad that caught my eye ,was for a picture of a Contax II looking camera , sold by mail order from a Toronto address. these were said to be new, and did not go for much money. I cannot remember the price , but it was less than half the japanese Leica copies .

 

[Azinko]

I think the main reason why there were Soviet goods on the UK market in the post war period/cold war was to allow/help them to repay the WWII debts to the UK

It is not remembered much now that during the early years of WWII Britain stood alone against Nazi Germany after the initial campaigns against poland, Cezchoslovakia, the Low Countries and of course, France. The USA was not only neutral but largely without sympathy for a war which they saw as merey a European folly and followed an 'isolationist' policy against teh UK. The Soviets had a non agression pact with Hitler until he launched an invasion which we now know came as a complete and devastatimg surprise. This resulted in Russia becoming Britains only ally in the early part of the war and although we were in a desparate situation ourselves we sent as much aid to Russia during the early part of 1941 as we could spare. This included 'Hurricane' fighters and 'Matilda' tanks. The Soviets later played down the help they got from us during the early war period and also the later help from the USA when they finally came into the War after 'Pearl Harbor'.

The UK aid to Russia was given via the 'Archangel Convoys' and the veterans are still unrecognised officially by Uk Gov. to the anger of many people here. although they were have recieved Soviet medals.