Ebay: Fraud or stupidity?

I looked at the ad. There is nothing misleading in it whatsoever.

Really, we should wish all listings were so clear and accurate.
 
vitaly66 said:
I looked at the ad. There is nothing misleading in it whatsoever.

Really, we should wish all listings were so clear and accurate.
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If all listings were like that then ebay would have been long gone! It says clearly about a Kiev III and a Kiev 4 is shown. Further in the description it states it as a Kiev-III made on '75. Well, the production of all Kiev-III had stopped in 1958. So, this one with serial 75XXXXX, there is no way being a Kiev-III (not to mention that it does not look like one, Kiev-III differs quite a bit from Kiev 4).

Sejanus.Aelianus said:
If only for the sheer devilment of it, I'm going to jump in on Nikos's side...

:p

There are a lot of people who play the "I don't really know what this is" game on eBay and good on Nikos for drawing attention to one example. In the UK, if you sell something by way of trade you must have sufficient knowledge and skill to describe it accurately and be sure it is fit for purpose. Weasel phrases like "I don't know much about this" are no defence. Indeed, they're taken to exacerbate the offence.

I personally know of one case where a "trader" tried this trick in England. He ended up having to make a full refund, plus costs and damages and paid a £1000 fine on top.

Just sometimes, the bad guys get their comeuppance! :D
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The most famous weasel quote is "It was working fine fifty years ago before storing it in my closet". :)
 
Don't waste your time "correcting" sellers. On the other hand, when you find something incorrectly listed that is far more valuable than the listed price, that is when you can get yourself a tremendous bargain.
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Totally agree, that is the point of eBay if you know what you are buying.

Expecting a detailed and accurate description of old items, which may not be familiar to the seller, is expecting too much IMHO in the general case.

I looked at this ad and the sellers's other items. Seller has quite a few photographic items, so it is a bit surprising that he errs in the Kiev number, 3 instead of the evident 4 (or 4M). But errors do happen, especially in the busy season.

This error is so obvious that it is hard to believe it is a fraud issue. It surely merits a commentary to the seller about a possible error in item description, if you are interested in the item.

The seller does not have such a bad feedback record. I'd be inclined to call it an error.
 
The seller does not have such a bad feedback record.
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Actually, the feedback tells me everything I need to know to steer well clear of this bloke:
"Complained after 4 weeks. Refused my offer of refund & sent abusive email. Idiot".

Of course, I could be maligning him. Perhaps the seller's name really is "Idiot".

:D
 
The advert gives just enough mixed information to make me beware of the seller. While professing to not know much about the camera, he was knowledgable enough to be able to determine it was from a later production run. Common con-man tactic, to put a thread of truth into the pitch.

PF
 
rodinal said:
OK, the seller is an ignorant and some people here knows a lot about obscure cameras. Move on.
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yes, good point..but first there is something about this thread that smells, smells really bad.
A lot of posters defending the listing..oh, the seller is based in Sussex
Now I wonder how this would have played out if the seller was based in,oh, lets say Ukraine or Russia?:cool:
Yes, large dose of hypocrisy here and you all know I`m correct.
 
pakeha said:
yes, good point..but first there is something about this thread that smells, smells really bad.
A lot of posters defending the listing..oh, the seller is based in Sussex
Now I wonder how this would have played out if the seller was based in,oh, lets say Ukraine or Russia?:cool:
Yes, large dose of hypocrisy here and you all know I`m correct.
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We do?

I didn't notice where he was from. I did however notice that the one specific phrase the OP picked on could be read differently. As for which model of Kiev it was -- look, it's eBay. WHAT DOES EVERYONE EXPECT?

Cheers,

R.
 
The description says "Kiev 3 Rangefinder, CAMERA & CASE - 1956" and clearly that's incorrect. It is neither a Kiev 3 nor 1956. I don't think it's fraud but it is (yet another) seller who didn't do his homework. If he had, he'd know it's a Kiev 4 and the going rate is maybe half his asking price, tops.

I've noticed several sellers trying to push FSU gear on Ebay lately, often mis-described and often at absurd BIN prices and which fail to sell. One seller listed a Zorki 4 as made by KMZ in the Ukraine using Contax machinery taken as war reparations. I messaged him to point out KMZ is in Krasnogorsk, which is a suburb of Moscow and that it was Kievs that were made (long ago) with war reparations equipment. He claimed he'd got it mixed up and he changed the listing. I've messaged other sellers who've thanked me but then neither changed listing nor added my message.

I suspect that some of these sellers are not knowledgeable on FSU gear, some are hopelessly optimistic and some work on the basis that the occasional mug will buy that "rare" Zorki 4 or whatever at an insane price.
 
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