newst
Well-known
This won't help the OP but there are two steps I always take when selling on Ebay, and I make both completely clear in the auction listing.
1. I always ship internationally through the Global Shipping Program. It is expensive for the buyer, and no doubt loses me some potential sales, but there is no question on whether an item is delivered while Ebay eats the cost if it isn't delivered.
2. I never agree to a partial refund. I only allow refunds if the item proves to be materially different to the description. (For example, on one occasion I was listing a number of different lenses and accidentally copy/pasted text stating the lens was haze free on a lens that was indeed hazy...immediate refund issued when the buyer questioned me.)
I recently sold a very nice Jupiter-3 to a Hong Kong based buyer. The buyer quickly complained that it was hazy, even included a photograph of the fogged lens (simple to do, chill the lens and take it out into warm, moist air). The buyer wanted a partial refund to cover the cost of a CLA on a lens that had been CLA'd 90 days earlier. I told the buyer that if he was unhappy he could return the lens for a full refund and never heard another word from him. Sometimes you get a win.
1. I always ship internationally through the Global Shipping Program. It is expensive for the buyer, and no doubt loses me some potential sales, but there is no question on whether an item is delivered while Ebay eats the cost if it isn't delivered.
2. I never agree to a partial refund. I only allow refunds if the item proves to be materially different to the description. (For example, on one occasion I was listing a number of different lenses and accidentally copy/pasted text stating the lens was haze free on a lens that was indeed hazy...immediate refund issued when the buyer questioned me.)
I recently sold a very nice Jupiter-3 to a Hong Kong based buyer. The buyer quickly complained that it was hazy, even included a photograph of the fogged lens (simple to do, chill the lens and take it out into warm, moist air). The buyer wanted a partial refund to cover the cost of a CLA on a lens that had been CLA'd 90 days earlier. I told the buyer that if he was unhappy he could return the lens for a full refund and never heard another word from him. Sometimes you get a win.
Chubberino
Well-known
No, actually, recording or providing any evidence does not work in the vast majority of circumstances. And they won't do much to protect him if anything regardless of what he does. For the record, I have had an actual brick returned instead of some gear I sold. Jumped through hoops with eBay and no resolution for me but being out the stuff I sold and the money I received and the shipping costs to and back incurred. Brace yourself for the worst OP.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
I'm surprised to learn what shipping under USPS with full sold price and insurance coverage means actually nothing.
First, I have to pay for customs and duties which simply not exist and never collected and then I'm watching on ebay tracking how item is jumping between some weird shipping services which reminding me local deliveries done buy working for cash drivers on old, rusted vehicles.
First, I have to pay for customs and duties which simply not exist and never collected and then I'm watching on ebay tracking how item is jumping between some weird shipping services which reminding me local deliveries done buy working for cash drivers on old, rusted vehicles.
BillBingham2
Registered User
My experience mirrors much of above.
That's the reason I call them EvilBay and PainPal.
It does work out some times, but has yet to for me.
B2 (;->
That's the reason I call them EvilBay and PainPal.
It does work out some times, but has yet to for me.
B2 (;->
_goodtimez
Well-known
Tell me where this guy is in China. I know some poeple down there who may help.
I'm curious how limiting sales to your own country eliminates this potential scenario?
GarageBoy
Well-known
Fewer dodgy people in the US, I guess
Ive sold a Fountain Pen to someone in Hong Kong who tried the same scheme - I was younger at the time, and I went, screw it, here's $20 - on a $700 item and he accepted
Another tried to claim the pen I sold him was a fake and refused to send it back because it's illegal to mail fakes - I schooled him on why it couldn't be a fake and he left me alone - US buyer...
Ive sold a Fountain Pen to someone in Hong Kong who tried the same scheme - I was younger at the time, and I went, screw it, here's $20 - on a $700 item and he accepted
Another tried to claim the pen I sold him was a fake and refused to send it back because it's illegal to mail fakes - I schooled him on why it couldn't be a fake and he left me alone - US buyer...
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
Well, it makes it much easier to go to court, adding to the risk of the scammer.
A Chinese scammer will merely lose one (quite disposable) eBay account, and run afoul of Paypal, but even there he'll be able to continue with a new account nominally run by some yokel, given the enormous income disparity in China.
sevo
Fokutorendaburando
From a European perspective, US buyers are almost as bad as Chinese ones - and from a US perspective, the same will go for European buyers. As I said, the point is that there is a extremely low risk when scamming overseas sellers over mid-price items as the cost of litigation will exceed the value even if you win. So there will always be people into these scams, anywhere...
jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
Kind of ridiculous to think that "only selling within your country" will be any better. I've shipped hundreds of things all over the world (cameras, lenses, prints, etc). The only problems I had were with people in the USA. No need to hate on the Chinese there fellas.
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
Can you elaborate, not on who, but what happened?
Did you personally contact the sellers to discuss what you were buying? Did you use Paypal?
davidnewtonguitars
Family Snaps
Buying and selling vintage goods by the owner, to a large market, was hardly possible before Ebay and Paypal, especially moderately priced items.
Before Ebay you either dealt with dealers, or went to flea markets & boot sales.
Before Ebay you either dealt with dealers, or went to flea markets & boot sales.
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
I have done the same, many for sales or purchases which exceeded $10k each. But none of them were "blind" sales. I knew who the seller was, I talked to the seller on the phone, and they all had other sales I knew about.
I only lost money on one large sale due to the buyer dying, and the estate not recognizing a verbal contract. Unfortunate, but stuff happens.
I have however sold and bought hundreds of inexpensive items on eBay, with very few problems. I continue to think nothing of spending a few hundred dollars on eBay, since it all averages out. I collect a lot of stuff, and eBay is unparalleled in availability.
But I will not sell a $10,000 item to an unknown stranger. Just me.
True, but the quality, at least for cameras, was much better by far. Camera shows in the '70s and '80s were simply unbelieveable! And the obvious advantage was you could look at the camera you were about to buy.
I bought cameras which have never appeared (and will never appear) on eBay -- directly from other collectors.
klapka
Established
I was in a situation selling the lens (Jupiter-9) to the USA.
A month after I have shipped it the buyer contacted me and reported it had never arrived. I checked the tracking and it said the lens had left my country 27 days ago with no further updates. What could I do? I asked him to wait more. He refused and opened a case (I would do the same if I were him). He won. eBay refunded him for the lens from my PayPal account. I thought well, ok.. Bad luck, and moved on. In a week after that I received a payment from him directly to my PayPal and a letter, stating that the lens has finally arrived. I checked the tracking and it did show he got it the day before (have no idea why did it take so much time to deliver). I thought I should let eBay know and updated the tracking to the case I've lost.
Suddenly eBay sent me a letter, saying they have reconsidered and.. a refund. So I got 2 refunds - 1 from the seller directly to my PayPal and the second - from eBay. I wrote the buyer a letter and he answered that the eBay took his money away from him after my update to the case, so to end this all up at last, I asked him to take no further actions and simply sent him the money via PayPal. And that was the end at last..
A month after I have shipped it the buyer contacted me and reported it had never arrived. I checked the tracking and it said the lens had left my country 27 days ago with no further updates. What could I do? I asked him to wait more. He refused and opened a case (I would do the same if I were him). He won. eBay refunded him for the lens from my PayPal account. I thought well, ok.. Bad luck, and moved on. In a week after that I received a payment from him directly to my PayPal and a letter, stating that the lens has finally arrived. I checked the tracking and it did show he got it the day before (have no idea why did it take so much time to deliver). I thought I should let eBay know and updated the tracking to the case I've lost.
Suddenly eBay sent me a letter, saying they have reconsidered and.. a refund. So I got 2 refunds - 1 from the seller directly to my PayPal and the second - from eBay. I wrote the buyer a letter and he answered that the eBay took his money away from him after my update to the case, so to end this all up at last, I asked him to take no further actions and simply sent him the money via PayPal. And that was the end at last..
I have had the same thing happen. A shipment took a long time to arrive, so the buyer filed a claim and got his money back.
When the item finally arrived, he was honest and paid me for it.
These experiences make up for the scammer situations, which I have found to be pretty rare, but easy to handle. Sold thousands of items on ebay, and I ship to any country as long as it has reliable postal service.
Overall the positive experiences outweigh the negatives by about 99 to 1, over 15+ years, with items from $50 to $25k.
Note to USA ebay sellers, don't ship via priority mail flat rate small box, or flat rate envelope, these will not track to all international destinations (they will of course track to USA destinations.) The item will exit US customs and that will be the end of the online tracking updates, and buyers will be able to file claims and get their money back. Yes, some buyers know this and use it to their advantage. Use the regular priority mail instead but it will it cost more. For pricier items use express, not priority.
When the item finally arrived, he was honest and paid me for it.
These experiences make up for the scammer situations, which I have found to be pretty rare, but easy to handle. Sold thousands of items on ebay, and I ship to any country as long as it has reliable postal service.
Overall the positive experiences outweigh the negatives by about 99 to 1, over 15+ years, with items from $50 to $25k.
Note to USA ebay sellers, don't ship via priority mail flat rate small box, or flat rate envelope, these will not track to all international destinations (they will of course track to USA destinations.) The item will exit US customs and that will be the end of the online tracking updates, and buyers will be able to file claims and get their money back. Yes, some buyers know this and use it to their advantage. Use the regular priority mail instead but it will it cost more. For pricier items use express, not priority.
The cost of litigation is far too high for nearly all ebay sales regardless of domestic or international. If this is a serious concern for a seller, then it's best to sell via other means
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
Just to be clear have you bought and sold $25k items on ebay?
I admit at those levels, I have taken a plane, and my buyers have done the same. When I did ship, I used art shippers.
Yes, I once sold a Phase One back for $25k. I don't recall the largest purchase, but probably in the $5k range.
michaelwj
----------------
It might be easier to go to court, but not really any cheaper.
As for you second paragraph, we can replace Chinese/China, with just about any people/country in the world.
There is an enormous income disparity in every country. To think that a prosperous 1st world country like Germany, USA, or Australia survives without a massive underclass of poverty stricken people is purely naive.
I think this has nothing to do with China, and everything to do with eBay is set up at the moment. For a while, it has been transitioning towards the "power seller" who does 10s of 1000s of sales selling low to medium priced goods. Not worth the effort to scam.
nikonhswebmaster
reluctant moderator
I have friends who have done the same. In "the old days" of ebay, sellers were paid in cash before they shipped, and I was much less worried.
But a Phase One back is probably not a worry, it's those crazy buyers of $200 cameras.
But honestly I really have enjoyed great success on eBay.I was just trying to suggest in my original post that personal contact is probably better than the anonymity of ebay? But the reality is that many people are just not cut out for selling in general.