Elmar 90/4 - Disappointing Results

[marknyc]

Just processed first rolls using new Leitz Elmar 90/4 and the results are disappointing.

Pretty much all of the shots taken with the lens are overexposed by anywhere from what looks like one to four stops. Other shots on the same roll taken using the CV 35/2.5 Skopar are absolutely fine, so it is not a film or exposure issue.

What could it be? Only thing I can thik is that the aperature calibration is off. Any ideas anyone?

It was my first camera related ebay purchase. Caveat emptor indeed.

Thanks,
Mark

 

[dadsm3]

Has to be the aperture calibration. Mine is great, and most people are surprised at the quality...these lenses are great value for the buck.
If it helps at all, looking from the front of the lens at F32 (watch it, mine goes past the F32) I wouild say the opening is pretty damn close to 1/8th dia. At F22 it's approaching 3/16ths, at F16 it's approaching a 1/4", at F11 about 5/16", at F8 it's just over 3/8", and at F5.6 it's about 9/16". I would think yours should be the same unless it's a LTM (mine's an M).
Mike

 

[dcsang]

Mark,

First of all, what camera are you using it with?
Secondly, Is it the collapsible Elmar?
Thirdly, ignore Frank G's comment 😀

Dave

 

[marknyc]

That's weird. Mine's pretty sharp with proper exposure. Probably the meter's at fault. 😎

But how could it be the meter if the other lens works fine (the pics on the rolls are about half and half one lens and the other, mixed in and taken under the same conditions, so unless the meter is somehow not functioning with this lens alone, can't be that).

Thanks

 

[marknyc]

Mark,

First of all, what camera are you using it with?
Secondly, Is it the collapsible Elmar?
Thirdly, ignore Frank G's comment 😀

Dave

Bessa R
No, its the regular one.
Too late. And the more the merrier. 😉

 

[dcsang]

Ya.. I would think the calibration of the aperture would be it. That's just my guess mind you, I'm no lens technician. I think Brian Sweeney or Kim Coxon might have a better idea mind you.

It doesn't sound like it would be anything else.

Dave

 

[raid]

This lens is rather old and it could be that the aperture blades at small aperture settings are not closing on time. Hold the lnes in front of you (wjen mounted) and shoot off without a film at all speeds and all apertute settings over and over to see if at some point the blades do not close down at the right time. Such a fault can lead to overexpsoure.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

If you are metering through-the-lens, with the Bessa R meter, the aperture calibration can't be the problem. The meter just cares about how much light comes through the lens, not what the lens claims the aperture to be. Unless you are using a hand meter and ignoring the Bessa R meter, this should not be a problem.

Check the lens for haze, or other optical effects that could be smearing the image.

 

[dadsm3]

Brian's right....the meter on the camera doesn't care what F stop your lens says.....just whether the exposure is correct. So unless you were using a hand held meter or something it's not the calibration. (I was hoping someone had just twisted the aperture ring too far, and that by loosening those two set screws and resetting the ring to read F4 at wide open, then tightening them it would be fine).
This may be worse than we think.....possibly somebody left an element out last time it was cleaned?

 

[marknyc]

If you are metering through-the-lens, with the Bessa R meter, the aperture calibration can't be the problem. The meter just cares about how much light comes through the lens, not what the lens claims the aperture to be. Unless you are using a hand meter and ignoring the Bessa R meter, this should not be a problem.

Check the lens for haze, or other optical effects that could be smearing the image.

Slaps forehead. Of course you are right. Hmmmm. Now I'm really stumped. The images don't really look hazy, it's more like straightforward overexposure. It's a mystery alright.

 

[dadsm3]

FrankG may actually be right after all.....doesn't the size of the metered area change depending on what focal length lens is installed on the lens? In other words, if the camera was metering too large an area, like it would for the 35mm lens, or too small an area, like it would for a 135mm, wouldn't that cause exposure problems? Or possibly the meter was fooled because the subject was all black?

 

[dadsm3]

read: "....installed on the CAMERA?"
sorry....

 

[bmattock]

Not overexposure. Lens flare. Overexposure not possible on Bessa R if the meter is functioning correctly and the lens is properly screwed on. The sensor is at the bottom of the camera, well out of harm's way from say an rangefinder tab.

Aperture leaves don't close down during shooting on a rangefinder, that's SLR shooting only. They stop down when you stop them down.

Presuming you are stopping down until you get a center-dot reading with your Bessa R, it is not overexposed. If it looks overexposed, that's a type of lens flare.

Use a lens hood. Mandatory with old lenses.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[hoot]

Bill-- I have a lovely LTM Jupiter-12 lens that gives lovely results, *except* when shooting backlit scenes. In that case, when I meter the backlit subject so that it is correctly exposed and the background is overexposed, what happens is that not merely the background, but also the subject itself is overexposed to the point of extreme highlight detail loss.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Uncoated 9cm/4 Elmar on the Canon 7. No filter, no shade, care to keep the lens out of direct sunlight.

Can you post some shots? Also: The Bessa R meters primarily on one section of the negative. I think (not sure) that the Bessa's meter on the bottom left. Check cameraquest.com. If so, you might want to point it around a larger area and "average" it yourself. My Canon 7 Selenium Meter takes in about the same FOV as a 35mm lens. I probably metered it off my hand for this shot.

 

[pbjbike]

Make sure the aperture moves freely and closes down fully. I ended up with a coated 90 Elmar in a trade that had a non-operating aperture. Not a big deal for DAG or Sherry to fix.

 

[bmattock]

Bill-- I have a lovely LTM Jupiter-12 lens that gives lovely results, *except* when shooting backlit scenes. In that case, when I meter the backlit subject so that it is correctly exposed and the background is overexposed, what happens is that not merely the background, but also the subject itself is overexposed to the point of extreme highlight detail loss.

Interesting. I believe you, but I haven't had that problem. On the other hand, I often meter manually for tricky shots when I don't trust the onboard meter. If the metering were external, then I could see a situation where f4 isn't really f4, etc. Otherwise, the internal meter just meters what is really there - except I guess for backlighting situations like yours.

Thanks, good point.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Make sure the aperture moves freely and closes down fully. I ended up with a coated 90 Elmar in a trade that had a non-operating aperture. Not a big deal for DAG or Sherry to fix.

If the metering is on-camera (TTL), then it should make no difference if the lens aperture is working or not - it only meters what it can see coming through the lens, and unlike an SLR lens, the aperture does not get 'stopped down' at shutter-release time. The way to catch that beside actually looking down the barrel of the lens, would be to notice that the indicated exposure does not change as you move the aperture ring.

Your point could be entirely true if using off-camera (external) metering.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[je2a3]

I've had similar over exposure problems using a Bessa-R body with my ca. '50 coated Elmar 90. Prior to that I've used it on unmetered LTM bodies with decent results. It had some slight haze and specks inside which I thought will not significantly affect images. Bothered by the Bessa R incident, I sent it to Oleg for CLA and when it came back the metering problem was gone and there was a significant improvement in captured images. Maybe having the lens elements too far up front fools the built-in meter on the R if the glass is a bit fogged which can be exacerbated by flare w/o a hood [I use a Fikus].

Later on I found out that CLA is quite simple with the help from these links at Pnet courtesy of Huw Finney - lubrication and fog reduction. I just CLA'd another Elmar 90 using these instructions.

Hope this helps!

Joseph

 

[payasam]

RFDR, not SLR. Aperture set doesn't change when you fire shutter. Meter cannot be blamed if Skopar shots correctly exposed: assuming no damage to Elmar's mount or something freakish about it. Suggest you follow up what Mike says. Look into lens and rotate aperture setting ring from fully open to fully closed, several times. If it shows reluctance to close down, that's it. If at all possible, compare your Elmar with another. A missing element wouldn't mean all that much more light getting through: the things are made of glass and are not intended to block light. Flare can indeed be a problem, and a hood should always be used, but I doubt that any amount of flare can cause what you describe as up to four stops over-exposure. If it's black and white film, you might try printing on soft paper in diluted developer just to check.

Is the Leitz Ektar a product of collaboration with Kodak and is the Yaschica made in Austria? I thought the spelling was Kreuznach. That's what my Xenar said anyway. Sorry about this. Teacher and editor equals nit-picker.