pfogle
Well-known
Hi, I've been tempted by a 21mm pre-Asph at a reasonable price, but would like to hear if anyone is using one on the R-D1, and if so, what their opinion is.
I've heard it's not as sharp as the Asph, but don't really know what that means in practical terms.
cheers
Phil
I've heard it's not as sharp as the Asph, but don't really know what that means in practical terms.
cheers
Phil
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
Hi Phil,
I have not tried the 21mm pre-Asph myself , but have seen reports that at least on film it is no better in sharpness terms than the Avenon that you (and I) already have. It may be better with vignetting on the R-D1?, but I don't find the Avenon too bad.
A friend sold one he had for his M6 as he was not over impressed. I think the Asph is i a different league.
Cheers
Jim
I have not tried the 21mm pre-Asph myself , but have seen reports that at least on film it is no better in sharpness terms than the Avenon that you (and I) already have. It may be better with vignetting on the R-D1?, but I don't find the Avenon too bad.
A friend sold one he had for his M6 as he was not over impressed. I think the Asph is i a different league.
Cheers
Jim
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
The older 21 (but not the very old ones) was a very good lens and should certainly give a much better image than the Avenon. Maybe the absolute sharpness is similar, but the lens qualities that really count are far superior.The Asph is a pretty spectacular lens, but some users prefer the older lens, as it is less harsh.
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pfogle
Well-known
thanks for the comments... the main problem I get with the Avenon is chromatic aberration, which can be corrected, but really effects the apparent sharpness. Apart from that, I like it a lot, and it has never showed enough vignetting to worry about.
For some reason, although I started out being really excited about the b/w quality of the R-D1, I seem to be shooting color all the time! Maybe it's because I'm still not really happy with the b/w printing I'm getting from the Epson 1290 I'm using.
I guess I'll see if I can borrow the Elmarit and do some side-by-side comparisons. I'll let you know how it turns out!
cheers
Phil
For some reason, although I started out being really excited about the b/w quality of the R-D1, I seem to be shooting color all the time! Maybe it's because I'm still not really happy with the b/w printing I'm getting from the Epson 1290 I'm using.
I guess I'll see if I can borrow the Elmarit and do some side-by-side comparisons. I'll let you know how it turns out!
cheers
Phil
Rocamadour
cronopio
Hi Phil.
The elmarit 2,8/21mm is the lens I tend to use the most... I very much like the look of the pictures, and shoot mostly b/w. The sharpness is great but the vignetting can be disturbing, however it is easily corrected (I use the Epson plug-in for Mac...).
Haven´t had the chance to compare it with neither the avenon or elmarit asph so I´m looking forward on hearing your comments!
By the way... what is the reasonable price that tempts you??
The elmarit 2,8/21mm is the lens I tend to use the most... I very much like the look of the pictures, and shoot mostly b/w. The sharpness is great but the vignetting can be disturbing, however it is easily corrected (I use the Epson plug-in for Mac...).
Haven´t had the chance to compare it with neither the avenon or elmarit asph so I´m looking forward on hearing your comments!
By the way... what is the reasonable price that tempts you??
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
D.Laney writes:" The inevitable superwideangle distortion is so small that it can be disregarded. Rendering of details and contrast are outstanding, even at full aperture. It has slight vignetting at full aperture. The distance from the optical centre to the film has been extended "(very important for use on the RD1, I should think!)
pfogle
Well-known
Rocadamour- it's £850 asking, but I could probably get a bit off. Not cheap, but s/h asph in London is £1000-1200 in the shops.
Anyway, whatever you pay, you forget it after a month, and just use the damn thing! At least, that's been my excuse
Phil
ps you mention the vignetting; may I ask on which sort of camera that is?
Anyway, whatever you pay, you forget it after a month, and just use the damn thing! At least, that's been my excuse
Phil
ps you mention the vignetting; may I ask on which sort of camera that is?
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jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
pfogle said:
Any superwideangle lens will vignette, the vignetting on this one is very slight, this is probably one of the best lenses in that respect. The remark was aimed at use on a film camera. A RD1 should vignette less because of the sensor crop and vignette more because of the acceptance angle of the sensor. The last will be less important on this lens, as it is designed to be useable on the M5, so the distance of the rear element of the lens and with that the distance of the optical centre of the lens to the film/sensor ( in German: Schnittweite) has been lenghtened, making it a kind of "digitally optimized lens" that strikes the sensor at a less acute angle at the edges, before digital even existed.
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pfogle
Well-known
thanks jaap, that's very clear. I'll be interested (as I'm sure many of us here will be) to see how it compares to the Avenon. I used to use the CV 21/4, which was a very sharp lens, but had considerable vignetting.
Also, I'd prefer to avoid using PhotoRAW to correct it, firstly because it's better if corrected in the lens (avoids noise problems in the corners, etc), and because I prefer the workflow and interface of Capture-One or Raw Shooter.
I'll see if I can check it out tomorrow.
cheers
Phil
Also, I'd prefer to avoid using PhotoRAW to correct it, firstly because it's better if corrected in the lens (avoids noise problems in the corners, etc), and because I prefer the workflow and interface of Capture-One or Raw Shooter.
I'll see if I can check it out tomorrow.
cheers
Phil
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Please do share your results of the comparison with us, Phil. I'm convinced there will be a clear difference, not so much in sharpness, as the resolving power of both lenses is well above the resolving power of a 6MP sensor, but in things like microcontrast and colour differentiation the Leica should be superior. However, I don't know of any direct comparisons and the proof of the pudding will be in the eating.
pfogle
Well-known
Well, I got the elmarit, however, I can't do a side by side, as I had to trade the Avenon to be able to afford the elmarit! However, I did do some shots in the shop, and was able to look at them at 100%, so I'll just have to share what I saw at the time.
They had two copies of the elmarit, one was 326xxxx and the other was 321xxxx, which I think dates them both to '83, so they're quite early examples.
The first one I tried was definitely not focusing exactly at infinity, but nevertheless was more contrasty and sharper wide open where it was in focus. The difference at 5.6 was very slight. The biggest difference is that the Avenon shows much more chromatic aberration at the edges, especially at the larger apertures.
The second one I tried (the older of the two) was altogether a better performer than the Avenon at 2.8 but again there wasn't a lot of difference at 5.6. The difference wide open was enough to persuade me to fork out for the Leitz lens. It's hard to put a finger on it, but it just looked better at larger apertures. For example, chrome chairs outside a cafe across the street looked crisp in the elmarit, while they had a sort of soft halo effect with the Avenon. The differences were really only visible at the edges... in the centre the Avenon looked every bit as sharp as the elmarit.
So, sorry no direct comparisons, but I will be posting some pix with the new lens, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the lens can deliver using RAW.
By the way, given the price drop on trade in, getting this lens has ended up costing me as much as a good used 21/2.8 Asph! Such is life. Moral: buy the best lens straight off, even if you have to mortgage the wife!
Phil
They had two copies of the elmarit, one was 326xxxx and the other was 321xxxx, which I think dates them both to '83, so they're quite early examples.
The first one I tried was definitely not focusing exactly at infinity, but nevertheless was more contrasty and sharper wide open where it was in focus. The difference at 5.6 was very slight. The biggest difference is that the Avenon shows much more chromatic aberration at the edges, especially at the larger apertures.
The second one I tried (the older of the two) was altogether a better performer than the Avenon at 2.8 but again there wasn't a lot of difference at 5.6. The difference wide open was enough to persuade me to fork out for the Leitz lens. It's hard to put a finger on it, but it just looked better at larger apertures. For example, chrome chairs outside a cafe across the street looked crisp in the elmarit, while they had a sort of soft halo effect with the Avenon. The differences were really only visible at the edges... in the centre the Avenon looked every bit as sharp as the elmarit.
So, sorry no direct comparisons, but I will be posting some pix with the new lens, and I'm looking forward to seeing what the lens can deliver using RAW.
By the way, given the price drop on trade in, getting this lens has ended up costing me as much as a good used 21/2.8 Asph! Such is life. Moral: buy the best lens straight off, even if you have to mortgage the wife!
Phil
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Congratulations! How much for your wife?? (pics first please!)
How much for your wife?? (pics first please!)
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pfogle
Well-known
jaap... first impressions, taking walk round pix, the lens is gorgeous! Can't quite say why (maybe it's because they cost so much!) but the pix do have a presence that the other lenses didn't have. The exception would be the centre performance of the CV 21/4, but the corners and the vignetting let it down. This lens sparkles right to the corners on the R-D1.
anyway, judging by the motto in your signature, I must be leading an excellent life!
Phil
anyway, judging by the motto in your signature, I must be leading an excellent life!
Phil
Rocamadour
cronopio
Now this is another thing I like with the R-d1; you can enter a store and try on different examples of all the forgotten lenses, have a few shots and then decide which performs best / fits your taste the best.
There´s not the same need for good reviews as you´re able see the result youreself before you buy! (with some restrictions). True, this goes for all digital cameras, but on the other hand they dont have the variety of old lenses to choose from.
Anyway, good buy Phil, hope you enjoy the lens!
There´s not the same need for good reviews as you´re able see the result youreself before you buy! (with some restrictions). True, this goes for all digital cameras, but on the other hand they dont have the variety of old lenses to choose from.
Anyway, good buy Phil, hope you enjoy the lens!
pfogle
Well-known
Getting to know the Elmarit-M
Getting to know the Elmarit-M
Well, it's hard not to feel smug with this bottle on the front.
Here's a hand-held snap inside the newly renovated Christchurch in Spitalfields - a Hawksmoor masterppiece now restored to its original 1729 interior.
The exposure was about 1/90sec wide open at ISO 800. The inset of the chandelier is 100%.
cheers
Phil
Getting to know the Elmarit-M
Well, it's hard not to feel smug with this bottle on the front.
Here's a hand-held snap inside the newly renovated Christchurch in Spitalfields - a Hawksmoor masterppiece now restored to its original 1729 interior.
The exposure was about 1/90sec wide open at ISO 800. The inset of the chandelier is 100%.
cheers
Phil