dazedgonebye
Veteran
Certainly Raid should chose his words carefuly. If he says anything too radical, he'll be in danger of being granted tenure at Columbia University.
embedded photographer kicked out for showing war
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xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
President McKinley is my favorite US prez.
LBJ, a close second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ZUneyU7Vo
LBJ, a close second.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6ZUneyU7Vo
sepiareverb
genius and moron
You might want to avoid the last 5...
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
Well, Al, perhaps I did not word that correctly. The word "moron" is not used by me. Instead, that is the word most commonly used by the folks who ask me how the state of Texas could produce such a person. It seems to be a general consensus out here, by many folks, that Bush is the "M" word.
On the other hand, my favorite nickname for our fearless leader is "Pet Monkey."
Al Patterson
Ferroequinologist
Hmm, so the multitude of morons think Bush is one of their own I see.
The problem is, I'd wager Bush is smarter than most of those who think he's the moron. From where I sit the average person isn't much above moron themselves, so maybe it's the old "takes one to know one" at work here...
brachal
Refrigerated User
I don't have an F, but I have a Nikkormat FTn, and I would not want to be hit with it. It is much tougher than I am. My father used it pretty hard, and its got plenty of dents and dings, but it's never needed more than a minor CLA in 40 years. Nikons of that era are famous for being able to take, or in this case deliver, a beating without breaking.
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
Al, you may be onto something there. 🙂
Personally, I don't think Bush is a stupid person, or an evil person, or insane. I just find him to possibly be the worst president this country has ever produced whose misguided policies have led this country into an insane and unjust war, whose policies have put a real crunch on the economy, and whose priorities are completely out of whack with the reality of the situation that he finds himself in. He is the lapdog of his business cronies and the pet monkey of political hacks. He is out of his league. He is just a bad president- plain and simple.
Remember the debates between Reagan and Carter? Reagan kept asking one simple question- "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago." And everyone in the country knew the answer to that.
Ask yourself the same question today- except there is one major difference. This president's incompetence has cost people their lives.
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pachuco
El ****
Perhaps the US Military should give all embedded photogs an M8, then they would not have to censor as much...... 😉
Rick Waldroup
Well-known
R
ruben
Guest
Hi Folks,
Perhaps we can not only abstain from name-calling but also make an effort towards a friendly exchange, despite the deep controversies. We can do it.
As for the case itself in my opinion it is a bit complex, very much due to the photog behaviour. It is not a clear cut case, in my opinion, and I will explain myself:
a) Being "embedded with Marines" - I don't know what was going in the mind of our fellow, but you can read the rules of the "contract" like you can read any law: literally, or by its spirit.
If you read it literally, it is clear to me you are not allowed to shoot whenever the "ground" officer in charge does not allow it.
If you read the contract by its spirit, you will be working for the US army.
If you are a reasonable person, but didn't read what you signed, you should understand that you cannot go to bed with the Marines and awake virgin.
2) Now, you can believe in the war, support the marines and their authorities, and most of the chances are you will not find yourself in any extra-marital conflict. Such kind of photographer was Dickey Chapelle, very much opposed to my views and nevertheless I wrote a note about her:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55661
3) True, most or all of the fundamentalistic groups, fighting the US, and US protected government there, do not have a PR office to which you can apply for guidance to show their side, or go ebedded and explode with them. So the concerned photographer looking for an independent view of the war finds himself in trouble. Has our colleague Zoriah Miller came out with an original and valid answer ?
4) Visual abuse. I have not liked either the porno carnage photo style of Mr Miller either. If to believe to the message of the style, this is the first war in which extraordinary carnage of US soldiers and local population takes place. Obviously untrue.
But we are supposed to associate the mutilated bodies with the war there, "Iraqui war = human carnage". Is this an objective, non-partysan viewpoint ?
Worse than that, escalating the visual scale of horror is a double sided sword. Today you can provoke some discomfort among the troops families, tomorrow you will have immunnized the US citizens to visually accept the unacceptable. That's not the way to convince, but rather cannibalize our minds. And if you don't want to convince, what exactly do you want ?
Cheers,
Ruben
Perhaps we can not only abstain from name-calling but also make an effort towards a friendly exchange, despite the deep controversies. We can do it.
As for the case itself in my opinion it is a bit complex, very much due to the photog behaviour. It is not a clear cut case, in my opinion, and I will explain myself:
a) Being "embedded with Marines" - I don't know what was going in the mind of our fellow, but you can read the rules of the "contract" like you can read any law: literally, or by its spirit.
If you read it literally, it is clear to me you are not allowed to shoot whenever the "ground" officer in charge does not allow it.
If you read the contract by its spirit, you will be working for the US army.
If you are a reasonable person, but didn't read what you signed, you should understand that you cannot go to bed with the Marines and awake virgin.
2) Now, you can believe in the war, support the marines and their authorities, and most of the chances are you will not find yourself in any extra-marital conflict. Such kind of photographer was Dickey Chapelle, very much opposed to my views and nevertheless I wrote a note about her:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55661
3) True, most or all of the fundamentalistic groups, fighting the US, and US protected government there, do not have a PR office to which you can apply for guidance to show their side, or go ebedded and explode with them. So the concerned photographer looking for an independent view of the war finds himself in trouble. Has our colleague Zoriah Miller came out with an original and valid answer ?
4) Visual abuse. I have not liked either the porno carnage photo style of Mr Miller either. If to believe to the message of the style, this is the first war in which extraordinary carnage of US soldiers and local population takes place. Obviously untrue.
But we are supposed to associate the mutilated bodies with the war there, "Iraqui war = human carnage". Is this an objective, non-partysan viewpoint ?
Worse than that, escalating the visual scale of horror is a double sided sword. Today you can provoke some discomfort among the troops families, tomorrow you will have immunnized the US citizens to visually accept the unacceptable. That's not the way to convince, but rather cannibalize our minds. And if you don't want to convince, what exactly do you want ?
Cheers,
Ruben
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dazedgonebye
Veteran
Ruben nailed it in all aspects.
peterm1
Veteran
Yours is presently a government that is not in the slightest bit interested in "truth" - just lies, spin and preservation of their power. Its when I see monsters like Bush and Cheney in power that I really appreciate democracy. It is b*****ds like these who would take power and hold it at any price if allowed to do so. Your constitution (and ours) is the only thing that protects us.....melodramatic perhaps but true never the less. We used to think it was a free press which protected us and to an extent its true too, but at present your Washington press corps looks like a bunch of tame lap dogs only too eager to fall into line and push the White House line for a few crumbs of a story and a pat on the head. Its no wonder that they allow themselves to be pushed around and expelled if they do not follow the White House patter. If they do not fight for their freedom to tell the truth (in pictures or words) they will lose it.
I saw a recent interview with veteran of the Washington press corps Helen Thomas. It was clear that she is embarrassed by the lack of gumption presently being shown by her peers. There was a clip of her giving the White House mouth piece a hard time over Bushes belated admission (after years of lying and obfuscation) that not only does he know the US tortures prisoners but that he ordered it. She was the only one asking hard questions. Everyone else in the room sat like timid school children.
For years now your administration has been preventing pictures being taken of the war - except for a sanitised version. Its time USA awoke from its sleep and kicked these sons of bitches in the ass. In Australia we recently kicked out our previous government with a landslide victory for the other side. After years of rooting for Bush and using his tactics the people got sick of an excessively conservative government which was willing to use every trick in the book to suppress dissent. Too bad their replacement government is beginning to look as if they are not up to the task.
So I guess you now know where I stand!
I saw a recent interview with veteran of the Washington press corps Helen Thomas. It was clear that she is embarrassed by the lack of gumption presently being shown by her peers. There was a clip of her giving the White House mouth piece a hard time over Bushes belated admission (after years of lying and obfuscation) that not only does he know the US tortures prisoners but that he ordered it. She was the only one asking hard questions. Everyone else in the room sat like timid school children.
For years now your administration has been preventing pictures being taken of the war - except for a sanitised version. Its time USA awoke from its sleep and kicked these sons of bitches in the ass. In Australia we recently kicked out our previous government with a landslide victory for the other side. After years of rooting for Bush and using his tactics the people got sick of an excessively conservative government which was willing to use every trick in the book to suppress dissent. Too bad their replacement government is beginning to look as if they are not up to the task.
So I guess you now know where I stand!
R
ruben
Guest
Hi peterm1,
I think you have in the abovequoted sentence, masterfully summed up the photog assumptions.
I don't share this oversymplification of politics, hystorical context, etc.
Cheers,
Ruben
How about this guys? Nobody has to shut up, but please be mindful that there are just as many folks who disagree with you as those who agree (roughly based on the past two popular vote counts in the US national elections) so please all be respectful of each other and also try to refrain from calling any of the liars, oops, I mean politicians names in the process.
We should be able to get through November pretty easily and there is always CNN and Fox News if you want to see bickering.
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