dee
Well-known
I will ever try to simplify the tongue twisters of M 8 [ emma ] and , now my PEntax K 10 [ kirs-ten ] [ Groan ]
There's a bit more to it , 'cso it's my adored neice - and her long time paramour ...
But the Pentax is just so difficult to learn - the M 8 was so easy !
when I found rangefinders it was as if I had awakened to something always clouding my ASdee fragmented perception of a confusing world .
The Pentax brings back the cloud between '' me '' and the little corner of the world which emma has isolated from chaos .... Returning me to the dee'sorientation of my Minolta 7000i ...
This isn't a minor thing - it's '' real '' and '' not real '' . I like the view to be '' constant '' - the zoom lense , AND the change with focusing , causes a kind of deesturbance ... though focusing with emma can cause cussing , generally it's wonderfull .
my Minolta SRT / SRS / XD7 were always Ok , but even then there was a barrier which my Zorkis / Feds / Kievs / Leicas pierce .
I am not regretting the Pentax - for photographing table top models and chasing children around , it will be easier than emma ... and to be honest , on lazy days , the zoom will come in handy !
But , there are no icons , hardly any buttons and switches to the Leica , It's like a real camera - though I know that inside , it's a computer , '' I '' am totally fooled into a 1950s era , whereas the language of a DSLR is of another age .
As for the Pentax compared , I have no experience of the others - it was simply that it handles best for me , and I can't wait to try out my Elmar clone , Zenit I 22s and I 50s - hopefully wthout any registration deeficulties ! I no longer consider that i might need t upgrade at some point - the images are perfectly acceptable , though I made the correct dee-sion with the K 10 over the k 100 , just over the entry level , at a reasonable price ... a couple of prime lenes will transform it's use , and a longer zoom might be usefull !
So I am not knocking it !
If anything , the Pentax highlights how right was my instinct that the hugely expensive Leica M 8 would create new opportunities and escape for me , i had not realised that this was so true .
dee
There's a bit more to it , 'cso it's my adored neice - and her long time paramour ...
But the Pentax is just so difficult to learn - the M 8 was so easy !
when I found rangefinders it was as if I had awakened to something always clouding my ASdee fragmented perception of a confusing world .
The Pentax brings back the cloud between '' me '' and the little corner of the world which emma has isolated from chaos .... Returning me to the dee'sorientation of my Minolta 7000i ...
This isn't a minor thing - it's '' real '' and '' not real '' . I like the view to be '' constant '' - the zoom lense , AND the change with focusing , causes a kind of deesturbance ... though focusing with emma can cause cussing , generally it's wonderfull .
my Minolta SRT / SRS / XD7 were always Ok , but even then there was a barrier which my Zorkis / Feds / Kievs / Leicas pierce .
I am not regretting the Pentax - for photographing table top models and chasing children around , it will be easier than emma ... and to be honest , on lazy days , the zoom will come in handy !
But , there are no icons , hardly any buttons and switches to the Leica , It's like a real camera - though I know that inside , it's a computer , '' I '' am totally fooled into a 1950s era , whereas the language of a DSLR is of another age .
As for the Pentax compared , I have no experience of the others - it was simply that it handles best for me , and I can't wait to try out my Elmar clone , Zenit I 22s and I 50s - hopefully wthout any registration deeficulties ! I no longer consider that i might need t upgrade at some point - the images are perfectly acceptable , though I made the correct dee-sion with the K 10 over the k 100 , just over the entry level , at a reasonable price ... a couple of prime lenes will transform it's use , and a longer zoom might be usefull !
So I am not knocking it !
If anything , the Pentax highlights how right was my instinct that the hugely expensive Leica M 8 would create new opportunities and escape for me , i had not realised that this was so true .
dee
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
Say What?
Say What?
Huh??? I used to have a '66 VW van named Hildegaard are we talking about the same thing?
Say What?
Huh??? I used to have a '66 VW van named Hildegaard are we talking about the same thing?
kshapero
South Florida Man
I used to have blue jean jacket named Satchmo. Could this be the meaning?
Dee, your observations are most interesting! The RF certainly has a constant view through the viewfinder, only the framelines changing position, not even the slight 'zooming' effect of an SLR focusing a prime lens. And, perhaps like you, I'm put off by a digital interface with modes and menus. I think that modal user interface is the main reason for my lack of interest in digital cameras. I am a Mac user too, since 1984, my first computer, and yes it's ALL about the interface.
Your words inspire me to consider more seriously the Epson R-D1 and Leica M8... I did buy a Pentax K100D last March, and read through the manual with camera in hand, setting the various preferences and seeing how it worked, then set it aside without making any exposures because I couldn't think of anything I wanted to do with it. Soon thereafter I'd forgotten how to use it, so there it sits, still unused. Maybe I could name it "PreKlood"?
Thanks, Dee, and good luck with Kirsten!
Your words inspire me to consider more seriously the Epson R-D1 and Leica M8... I did buy a Pentax K100D last March, and read through the manual with camera in hand, setting the various preferences and seeing how it worked, then set it aside without making any exposures because I couldn't think of anything I wanted to do with it. Soon thereafter I'd forgotten how to use it, so there it sits, still unused. Maybe I could name it "PreKlood"?
Thanks, Dee, and good luck with Kirsten!
Nando
Well-known
I'm with you, Doug. I don't mind the digital medium at all - it's the horrible human-to-machine interface of the cameras. I feel the same way about the fully-automated film SLR's too.
Dee, I hope that you enjoy both cameras. I name my cameras and lenses too. The Bessa-T is Panda Bear, the M3 is Mr. White, the MP is Rudolf, the Summitar used to be "The Crooner" until last week when I changed its name to Dino. Should I be talking to my shrink about this?
Dee, I hope that you enjoy both cameras. I name my cameras and lenses too. The Bessa-T is Panda Bear, the M3 is Mr. White, the MP is Rudolf, the Summitar used to be "The Crooner" until last week when I changed its name to Dino. Should I be talking to my shrink about this?
dee
Well-known
Have you ever tried to say K 10 and M 8 witout a kind of hic-cup ?
my Asdee relies on a kind of rythm , some words are just too uncomfortable for me - French is so much easier !
Oddly , I never '' name '' anything else , and find it odd that cats are named- they do not need names , indeed , every naming never gets stuck to the object - so I can see '' camera '' and still wonder what '' IT "" is - or '' My hand ? '' as well !
It's the dee's-comfort with the hic-cup - like '' adult '' , which kind of breaks the rythm .
OK , I know it's crazy - the puns deerive from the same deficulty - but from my side of the deesruption , it's really wierd , ASD is autisic Spectrum Disorder ... ASdee is MY autisic dee'sorder .
Now I know what it is , I kinda allow it - in the past , I was ever fighting my '' stupid '' - like L would NEVER had ''indulged '' in an M 8 , just to calm the chaos all around - because I am not that good a photographer -
Now I do a lot of stuff for no real reason
dee
my Asdee relies on a kind of rythm , some words are just too uncomfortable for me - French is so much easier !
Oddly , I never '' name '' anything else , and find it odd that cats are named- they do not need names , indeed , every naming never gets stuck to the object - so I can see '' camera '' and still wonder what '' IT "" is - or '' My hand ? '' as well !
It's the dee's-comfort with the hic-cup - like '' adult '' , which kind of breaks the rythm .
OK , I know it's crazy - the puns deerive from the same deficulty - but from my side of the deesruption , it's really wierd , ASD is autisic Spectrum Disorder ... ASdee is MY autisic dee'sorder .
Now I know what it is , I kinda allow it - in the past , I was ever fighting my '' stupid '' - like L would NEVER had ''indulged '' in an M 8 , just to calm the chaos all around - because I am not that good a photographer -
Now I do a lot of stuff for no real reason
dee
dee
Well-known
I wonder if this DSLR interface problem is generation related ?
If someone grows up with a computer rather than a '' camera '' is it easy ?
dee
If someone grows up with a computer rather than a '' camera '' is it easy ?
dee
Nando
Well-known
I almost bought a K10D at the start of the summer but once I held it in my hands and looked through the viewfinder, I knew that I wouldn't like using it. Unfortunately, I haven't had the pleasure of handling an M8 yet as the nearest Leica dealer is a 6-hour drive away. I think that if there was one digital camera that I like using, it would probably be the M8.
I don't think its a generation thing. I grew up with computers. When I was entering kindergarten in 1980, desktop computers were being installed in classrooms everywhere in Canada. I have a computer science degree and I currently teach computer courses. The bad user-interface designs in cameras actually started in the auto-focus era I think - digital just compounded the problem making the user-interface even more complicated with addition of LCD screens, menus, and more buttons. When I decided to get serious about photography a few years ago, I purchased a Canon 300D. It came with a manual the size of the Old Testament! I kept thinking that if such a machine was to ideally become transparent why did it have to be so complicated to operate? Luckily the camera got stolen and I was reintroduced to mechanical cameras and especially the rangefinder.
I don't think its a generation thing. I grew up with computers. When I was entering kindergarten in 1980, desktop computers were being installed in classrooms everywhere in Canada. I have a computer science degree and I currently teach computer courses. The bad user-interface designs in cameras actually started in the auto-focus era I think - digital just compounded the problem making the user-interface even more complicated with addition of LCD screens, menus, and more buttons. When I decided to get serious about photography a few years ago, I purchased a Canon 300D. It came with a manual the size of the Old Testament! I kept thinking that if such a machine was to ideally become transparent why did it have to be so complicated to operate? Luckily the camera got stolen and I was reintroduced to mechanical cameras and especially the rangefinder.
amateriat
We're all light!
I'll back up sitemistic as far as to say the problem, such that it is, didn't begin with dSLRs. My last full-on SLR setup was with a pair of Minolta 9xi bodies. These had menus up the Ginza (and program cards...how much more geeky can you get?). Liked working that way for a while, then got tired of it (together with the weight and size of the stovepipe zooms I was dragging around). Digital didn't make matters much worse, but cerrtainly not any better...Canon 1Ds drive me a bit batty.*
(*Cut to scene of neighbor calling me to say someone who looked remarkably like Santa Claus came roaring up the street in a perfectly-cherry Ford 429, asking for me by name and muttering something about a stockingful of coal...)
- Barrett
(*Cut to scene of neighbor calling me to say someone who looked remarkably like Santa Claus came roaring up the street in a perfectly-cherry Ford 429, asking for me by name and muttering something about a stockingful of coal...)
- Barrett
dee
Well-known
... i think that I will '' regress '' to my Kiev 4 m for a while and give the pixels a miss
But the inter-deeface dee-ficulties certainly arrived with my Minolta 7000i - the XD 7 was a dream by comparison ...
dee
But the inter-deeface dee-ficulties certainly arrived with my Minolta 7000i - the XD 7 was a dream by comparison ...
dee
infocusf8@earthlink.
Established
K10, K10, K10, M8, M8, M8. Nope, didn't hiccup. I've decided to name my M8 badass.
I suspect that people very experienced with video game machines would quickly grasp the typical dSLR interface. And true, this started with feature-laden film cameras a bit earlier. Or maybe it was the programmable VCRs before that! Cell phones have become just as bad...
But I'm ok with the Contax-G2 for instance, though if I don't use it for a while I might forget how to set the film speed, for example. Same deal with the Fuji GA645; with a little fiddling I can bring it back. The Pentax MZ-3 and 645NII are no problem, pretty intuitive, so this gave me hope that the K100D would be as easy... Well, I don't think it is, though better than usual for a dSLR.
I'll dig out the manual again and give it a shot. My wife (the gadget hound) thinks it looks quicker and more convenient than her new Nikon S-10 swiveler. But not as easy to carry in her little purse/bag, so I'm probably safe.
But I'm ok with the Contax-G2 for instance, though if I don't use it for a while I might forget how to set the film speed, for example. Same deal with the Fuji GA645; with a little fiddling I can bring it back. The Pentax MZ-3 and 645NII are no problem, pretty intuitive, so this gave me hope that the K100D would be as easy... Well, I don't think it is, though better than usual for a dSLR.
I'll dig out the manual again and give it a shot. My wife (the gadget hound) thinks it looks quicker and more convenient than her new Nikon S-10 swiveler. But not as easy to carry in her little purse/bag, so I'm probably safe.
Nando
Well-known
infocusf8@earthlink. said:
Did you say that in English or French? I have more trouble saying it in French.
As far as the interface goes, ease of use doesn't necessarily yield an intuitive camera nor a camera that is enjoyable to use. The typical interface is more than just the menus, buttons, knobs, etc. It the crappy viewfinders, the plastics, the bulk, the weight (always too heavy or too light), the way that the contours of the body and button placements dictate how you move your fingers/hands about when setting the camera up for a shot. Why can't anybody make a manual-focus, digital SLR in the same fashion that Leica made the M8? If Pentax made digital SLR that operated like my MX but with an LCD screen a few necessary buttons added on, I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
Dee,
I must say that of the all the digital SLR's I considered purchasing a few months ago (I didn't purchase any of them), I liked the K10D the best. The one with the best interface (to me) was the Panaleica DMC-L1K (hicup) Digilux 3 but the VF on that camera is BAAADDDD and not in a good way. One look through the VF and I was turned off completely.
dee
Well-known
Hmmm ... I may buy a PanaLeica - with a 50mm equivalent manual Olympus lens+adapter - and a 50mm viewfinder , so I don't have to ruin my eyesight !
At least the prime controls are where I expect them !
...as bulky , plastic , ugly , heavy , unbalanced , DSLRs go the K10 is OK !
I am sure content that i dee-sisted from a much more expensive one though !
dee
At least the prime controls are where I expect them !
...as bulky , plastic , ugly , heavy , unbalanced , DSLRs go the K10 is OK !
I am sure content that i dee-sisted from a much more expensive one though !
dee
niblue
Member
dee said:
Won't make up for the 4/3rds sensor making nice wide angle lenses into mediocre telephotos.
I like the handling of the K10D - I'm a long term Pentax user though so perhaps I'm just used to the way they do it (although my recently aquired 645 is a bit different as it's reliant on push-buttons rather than dials).