End of the CCD Leica M's

Timmyjoe

Timmyjoe

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Just got a notice that the original Leica M Monochrom has been officially discontinued, and went to the B&H site and found the ME is also now listed as discontinued.

So I guess that is it for the Leica M line with the CCD sensors. Makes me sad on the one hand, as I really like the way the CCD sensor renders, but also makes me glad that I got my ME last summer when they were still in stock, and heavily discounted.
 
The CCD sensor would be a lot more tolerable if the rest of the camera operated as smoothly as the M240 does (and it's still a ways to go for flawless operation). I still have my M9 and am mulling whether to have the sensor replaced (it has the spots) or do the trade-up, assuming it's offered to me, for another M240. Right now it languishes as the back-up that is rarely required.

I do like the M9's look, how the sensor performs at base ISO and that it's almost ISO-less. I don't like the M9's quirky operation, lock-ups, random image banding - sometimes quite severe and slow, limited buffer. It feels sluggish in comparison to the M240. Pity the best of both couldn't be melded together.
 
My M-E shots, using the same lenses, had more snap to them than my M shots. Even if I focused using Live View. I guess there is a reason why Leica is rolling out new versions of their current lenses.
 
Love the CCD. Willing to overlook a lot for how great the images look. Would love an MD style one with no screen. Would eliminate the problems caused by shooting a bunch of photos and trying to chimp which seems to cause it to lock up.

As long as it keeps functioning I'm not buying anything else.
 
Timmyjoe said:
Just got a notice that the original Leica M Monochrom has been officially discontinued, and went to the B&H site and found the ME is also now listed as discontinued.

So I guess that is it for the Leica M line with the CCD sensors. Makes me sad on the one hand, as I really like the way the CCD sensor renders, but also makes me glad that I got my ME last summer when they were still in stock, and heavily discounted.
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Timmy,

CCD sensors cost more, so for the bottom line and profit margin it seemed that CCD sensors would be phased out. It is just business.

I would agree the MM basically is best at base ISO and perhaps above 800 is of no use to me. The M-240 and M-246 are much more refined cameras, but I do love the rendering of the CCD of the original Monochrom-warts and all.

The only camera that interests me today is the SL and especially a monochrome version of the SL which I both hope and believe will eventually happen.

Cal
 
I still believe (with no empirical proof what-so-ever) that the CCD sensor in my ME gives me the most Kodak (Ektachrome) look of any sensor I've ever used. And I love that look, and miss the real Ektachrome which I used to shoot in my M6 all the time. And I accept the compromises the M9 cameras present.

I've got a few nice Nikon/Canon DSLR's for when I want the look of a CMOS sensor, and they have none of the compromises the Leica digital cameras present, so when I want the look of a CMOS sensor, I pick up one of them.

Glad I still have a Leica CCD camera for those times when only the brilliant colors of Ektachrome will do.
 
Timmy,

Well put. I have a D3X for a different look.

Sometimes I use the Nikon 45/2.8P which has a very simple lens: a Tessar I believe. Having few lens elements for more transmission and fewer reflection losses combined with having the latest Nikon Intergrated Coatings this lens tends to saturate the colors and makes deep shadows for strong contrast. Sometimes I even add a polarizer for even more saturation and contrast.

Anyways something to try for that slide look. Some say that this lens is the highest contrast lens that Nikon ever made.

Cal
 
I never though about it Cal until I used the M9 and then switched to Fuji and I noticed the difference. I liked both though. As far as B&W... I think that's a stretch based on the fact that you can change the way tri-x looks via development, pushing it, etc.
 
I know one M9 user in Germany, who returned M240 after one week and went back to M9.
I asked why and it was because he likes M9's CCD rendering and M240's CMOS was not giving it.
I wasn't sure what he was talking about until I've seen one portrait. Human skin was rendered not with just fine color and tones. It was rendered alive, I could feel even blood vessels under it.

Cheers :), Ko.
 
CMOS sensors haven't been on the market as long as CCDs, but their performance is catching up quickly (and already superior to CCDs in some areas like power consumption), with prices well below that of CCDs. I doubt that we will see many digital cameras with CCD sensors in the future.
 
giganova said:
CMOS sensors haven't been on the market as long as CCDs, but their performance is catching up quickly (and already superior to CCDs in some areas like power consumption), with prices well below that of CCDs. I doubt that we will see many digital cameras with CCD sensors in the future.
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G,

In another way CMOS performance is better. High ISO is one besides power consumption. I think with less power consumption comes lower noise also.

CMOS is still evolving. I think you have it right that CCD's are kinda a mature technology and won't advance as much as CMOS will.

Cal
 
jsrockit said:
I never though about it Cal until I used the M9 and then switched to Fuji and I noticed the difference. I liked both though. As far as B&W... I think that's a stretch based on the fact that you can change the way tri-x looks via development, pushing it, etc.
Click to expand...

John,

The way I use my MM and process is more like Fuji Acros.

Just joking around.

You are correct that Tri-X has many looks. Probably the most out of any film.

Cal
 
Calzone said:
G,

In another way CMOS performance is better. High ISO is one ....
Click to expand...

I use my CMOS camera for high ISO and (especially) for very long exposure night photography. My D750 can do perfectly clean night shots in the ten minute range (on a cool night) but my D80 will give me a noisy, grainy green sky after just a couple minutes. But otherwise, I prefer the CCD D80 for regular daylight photography, every time.
 
giganova said:
CMOS sensors haven't been on the market as long as CCDs, but their performance is catching up quickly (and already superior to CCDs in some areas like power consumption), with prices well below that of CCDs. I doubt that we will see many digital cameras with CCD sensors in the future.
Click to expand...

Please don't let this devolves into another CCD vs CMOS thread, which was absolutely not my intent in starting this thread, let's just all agree that CCD and CMOS sensors are apples and oranges, and some people like apples and some people prefer oranges, but there is nothing wrong with either of them, and one is not "better" than another, they just have a different look that some prefer over the other.

What I wanted to discuss with this thread is that CCD sensors are no longer available through Leica in their M line. For some of us, that is a sad day.
 
Timmyjoe said:
What I wanted to discuss with this thread is that CCD sensors are no longer available through Leica in their M line. For some of us, that is a sad day.
Click to expand...

Timmy,

Not sad for me. I still have to get my sensor replaced on my MM. Pretty soon that camera will be 4 years old. A friend gave me a fresh extra battery so now I have three. If I get at least another 4 years of use I say then I got my money's worth and anything more is basically a free camera.

In fact the sensor replacement I expect is a bit like a CLA and I should have a fresh Monochrom again, perhaps with the updated software.

No reason to think that my Monochrom won't be treasured and used far into the future. As far as being such a thing as vintage digital cameras I think the M9 and Monochrome along with the DMR will always have a cult following.

Let us celebrate being part of that cult following that bought our cameras new and decided that the M9 and Monochrom have legs and a long future.

Very unlikely that another CCD camera will be made to replace the M9 or MM. I think it is wise to be a hold out. Makes me love my MM even more.

Cal
 
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