zauhar
Veteran
So I have been futzing with the filter drawer in my omega enlarger for a while now, and I would like to step up to something better
I would be doing 35mm black and white initially. About the only aspect of my workflow I can think to mention is that I make a lot of use of the red filter hanging underneath the lens.
I would like to eventually experiment with color prints, and possibly medium format.
There have been some positive remarks here about Saunders and Durst enlargers. Any specific recommendations anyone is willing to share ?
Thanks!
Randy
I would be doing 35mm black and white initially. About the only aspect of my workflow I can think to mention is that I make a lot of use of the red filter hanging underneath the lens.
I would like to eventually experiment with color prints, and possibly medium format.
There have been some positive remarks here about Saunders and Durst enlargers. Any specific recommendations anyone is willing to share ?
Thanks!
Randy
x-ray
Veteran
If you have space look at the D5XL Omega. This is what I use and have used professionally for thirty years and printed on Omegas since the lat 50's when my dat taught me to print.
No connection to the seller
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-SUPPE...418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cccd68c32
This is a great deal and there are plenty of parts and accessories available. These were the standard of the pro photo industry and you can print anything up through 4x5.
I found several really cheap B series dichroic Omegas too for under a hundred dollars.
I don't know much about Saunders but do own a 5x7 Durst floor model and have used this model since the late 60's. IMO the big pro Laborator Durst's are probably the finest enlargers ever made. Saltzman is up there too but they are older and very hard to find. The problem with Durst equipment is, the consumer models were terrible and poorly made. The pro models are tanks and are as large as a tank and as heavy. Parts are scarce for all durst and very expensive in most cases. If you need a lens cone or board, good luck finding it! there was a company on the west coast that had all of the durst inventory but I don't know if they are in business any longer and they were sky high in price. You may find a Leitz V35 but it only works up to 35mm and the early ones had a lamp problem that was expensive to replace and adapters for modern lamps are hard to impossible to find. some were known to crack internally from heat. Beseler made a very nice C23enlarger that would go up to 6x9. I had one with a color head that a client basically gave me. they're very nice, relatively small and very sturdy. Parts can often be found like lens boards and carriers.
My advice, Omega first and then Beseler.
I did see a great deal on an 8x10 Durst laborator the other day. It was the color model with all the goodies in near new condition. Only $2000 but you need at least a 10 ft ceiling and a space 5x5ft and 220v power.
I have used them and they are massive. I think these were around $30,000 new without any goodies.
No connection to the seller
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OMEGA-SUPPE...418?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cccd68c32
This is a great deal and there are plenty of parts and accessories available. These were the standard of the pro photo industry and you can print anything up through 4x5.
I found several really cheap B series dichroic Omegas too for under a hundred dollars.
I don't know much about Saunders but do own a 5x7 Durst floor model and have used this model since the late 60's. IMO the big pro Laborator Durst's are probably the finest enlargers ever made. Saltzman is up there too but they are older and very hard to find. The problem with Durst equipment is, the consumer models were terrible and poorly made. The pro models are tanks and are as large as a tank and as heavy. Parts are scarce for all durst and very expensive in most cases. If you need a lens cone or board, good luck finding it! there was a company on the west coast that had all of the durst inventory but I don't know if they are in business any longer and they were sky high in price. You may find a Leitz V35 but it only works up to 35mm and the early ones had a lamp problem that was expensive to replace and adapters for modern lamps are hard to impossible to find. some were known to crack internally from heat. Beseler made a very nice C23enlarger that would go up to 6x9. I had one with a color head that a client basically gave me. they're very nice, relatively small and very sturdy. Parts can often be found like lens boards and carriers.
My advice, Omega first and then Beseler.
I did see a great deal on an 8x10 Durst laborator the other day. It was the color model with all the goodies in near new condition. Only $2000 but you need at least a 10 ft ceiling and a space 5x5ft and 220v power.
I have used them and they are massive. I think these were around $30,000 new without any goodies.
Vics
Veteran
The only experience I have had with Durst was an M600, for 35 and 120. The only thing I didn't like were the negative carriers. I had to try to get four glass surfaces and two film surfaces clean all at the same time. Lots of spotting. Now I use a Beseler 23CII with glassless carriers and no more spotting! Yea! I also like El-Nikor lenses. The 50mm f2.8 is great and the 75mm f4 isn't far behind.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not Durst, unless you want spares availability to be limited to stripping down scrappers.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I'm one of the fans of the LPL enlargers. I use the 4500, have used it for years for both C-printing and B&W. I don't C-print any longer, but use the VC head for B&W, and it is seamless. ND filtration to keep exposure times precisely the same no matter what adjustments one makes to contrast. The 6x7 versions do not all have this ND provision (I'm really not sure if any of the 67 ones do) but are solidly built. They feel much more precise than a modern Beseler.
The modular design of the 4500 allows for simply swapping out the bulb & filter assembly if one wants to print color, or go straight diffusion without filtration. Very slick setup, super easy and quick. Mixing chambers are easy to sawp out as well. I have 45 & 35mm sizes, I gain an extra stop or stop and a half with the 35mm for big enlargements of 35mm negs.
The LPL 4500 is touted as "never needing alignment" and while this is a nice selling point it is not precisely correct. I do align mine, and alignment is a relatively simple project.
Some niggles with the 67 models: the negative carriers cannot be rotated, they are one orientation only. Alignment adjustment is less precise than on the 4500. We have eight or so of the 6700 models in my lab at work and they rarely need adjusting despite getting a pretty good workout from students.
khbphotographix are wonderful folks for LPL knowledge and parts from a lensboard or a retaining screw to a complete enlarger new or rebuilt. Their manual for the 4500 is worth the few bucks.
B&H also stocks the new units.
I never recommend Beseler any more. Since their reorganization they have become unresponsive to questions, and their quality control is down the tubes. Our school lab was once all Beseler, they are slowly being replaced with the LPLs. The last two 23CXLiii VC machines we purchased have been nothing but trouble, with heads that are both unreliable and extremely difficult to repair when something goes wrong. Getting my fingers or even a hemostat into position to reattach a spring that slips off a poorly designed hook to keep filters adjustable because the cover has been spot welded on rather than being made removable is an exercise in frustration. Especially when it needs to be done once a week.
The modular design of the 4500 allows for simply swapping out the bulb & filter assembly if one wants to print color, or go straight diffusion without filtration. Very slick setup, super easy and quick. Mixing chambers are easy to sawp out as well. I have 45 & 35mm sizes, I gain an extra stop or stop and a half with the 35mm for big enlargements of 35mm negs.
The LPL 4500 is touted as "never needing alignment" and while this is a nice selling point it is not precisely correct. I do align mine, and alignment is a relatively simple project.
Some niggles with the 67 models: the negative carriers cannot be rotated, they are one orientation only. Alignment adjustment is less precise than on the 4500. We have eight or so of the 6700 models in my lab at work and they rarely need adjusting despite getting a pretty good workout from students.
khbphotographix are wonderful folks for LPL knowledge and parts from a lensboard or a retaining screw to a complete enlarger new or rebuilt. Their manual for the 4500 is worth the few bucks.
B&H also stocks the new units.
I never recommend Beseler any more. Since their reorganization they have become unresponsive to questions, and their quality control is down the tubes. Our school lab was once all Beseler, they are slowly being replaced with the LPLs. The last two 23CXLiii VC machines we purchased have been nothing but trouble, with heads that are both unreliable and extremely difficult to repair when something goes wrong. Getting my fingers or even a hemostat into position to reattach a spring that slips off a poorly designed hook to keep filters adjustable because the cover has been spot welded on rather than being made removable is an exercise in frustration. Especially when it needs to be done once a week.
zauhar
Veteran
Gentlemen, thanks for the good advice. I have looked at the link to the omega that x-ray provides, and that looks like an excellent setup. Sepiareverb, I was also looking at the lpl units on eBay, will check out the site you suggest.
Randy
Randy
imush
Well-known
I would look for the LPL 7700 line formerly aka Saunders 670, e.g. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-LP...097?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43b6bf8711
These are still supported by manufacturer, can do up to 6x7 and are compact and versatile. You can find one with a color or VC head, or get two heads. I prefer condenser, at least for 35mm, but also have the VC head and can change from one to the other in a minute.
It is small enough for an apartment dweller; mine sits on a hospital style utility cart, so I can roll it into the bathroom and work there. But if you have room in the house and possibly ever need to print from something larger than MF, then look for the 4x5 version.
sepiareverb: I have the VC head for the 6x7 LPL, and the exposure time seems roughly constant with respect to contrast setting, no need to double the time for contrast 4 or 5. I don't think it is possible to make it precisely constant without knowing the paper. But maybe they did just this for Ilford Multigrade (I mostly use Adox MCC).
These are still supported by manufacturer, can do up to 6x7 and are compact and versatile. You can find one with a color or VC head, or get two heads. I prefer condenser, at least for 35mm, but also have the VC head and can change from one to the other in a minute.
It is small enough for an apartment dweller; mine sits on a hospital style utility cart, so I can roll it into the bathroom and work there. But if you have room in the house and possibly ever need to print from something larger than MF, then look for the 4x5 version.
sepiareverb: I have the VC head for the 6x7 LPL, and the exposure time seems roughly constant with respect to contrast setting, no need to double the time for contrast 4 or 5. I don't think it is possible to make it precisely constant without knowing the paper. But maybe they did just this for Ilford Multigrade (I mostly use Adox MCC).
Vickko
Veteran
Hmmm.
Okay, you're doing colour, so not recommending Focomat IIc.
I am just about to use a Durst L1200. Dry runs are impressing me immensely. Sure, spares and accessories are a pain but ebay has been good to me so far, and the enlarger was pretty much complete when I bought it. Just been acquiring a few more negative holders and masks. But the whole thing seems to be built like a rock, very similar to the Focomat IIc in regards to rock solid.
I had an LPL4500XL, and was amazed at how light it leaked. I put a blanket over it when I printed. But it had an amazing colour head. I used it for Cibachrome; very easy to use. I don't think it was as solid as the Durst.
Never ran a Beseler nor big Omega (had a B22XL when I was young), but read bad things about them for not keeping alignment.
So, my advice, don't be afraid of the Durst L1200.
Okay, you're doing colour, so not recommending Focomat IIc.
I am just about to use a Durst L1200. Dry runs are impressing me immensely. Sure, spares and accessories are a pain but ebay has been good to me so far, and the enlarger was pretty much complete when I bought it. Just been acquiring a few more negative holders and masks. But the whole thing seems to be built like a rock, very similar to the Focomat IIc in regards to rock solid.
I had an LPL4500XL, and was amazed at how light it leaked. I put a blanket over it when I printed. But it had an amazing colour head. I used it for Cibachrome; very easy to use. I don't think it was as solid as the Durst.
Never ran a Beseler nor big Omega (had a B22XL when I was young), but read bad things about them for not keeping alignment.
So, my advice, don't be afraid of the Durst L1200.
Vickko
Veteran
Oh, my "other enlarger" was a Focomat IIc grey model. Now feeling very very sorry that I sold it in the summer. But it was expensive. I didn't like it reminding me how much money I had tied up in it.
I got the Durst L1200 virtually free, because it had an amazing lens and I paid pretty much for only the lens.
I got the Durst L1200 virtually free, because it had an amazing lens and I paid pretty much for only the lens.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I like the IIc very much, also for 35mm work. The strong points of the IIc are the evenness of the illumination and the ergonomy the special 35mm carrier provides. When you intend to do 35mm work with the IIc this special carrier is essential. This 35mm carrier has only on one side glass, anti-Newton glass. The glass holds the negative flat in the same way the condenser in an Ic does, but it has the advantage that there also is a small clip that holds the negative in place. This clip is very convenient. It can hold in place a piece of film as small as the length of one frame. Now try to do that with an Ic.
When you want to print the whole negative with a black border, you'll have to file out the cut-out of the brass mask. The brass is 2mm thick. The filing takes some patience, but is not hard to do.
The 60mm Focotar is very good for prints up to 24x30cm. On prints of 30x40cm you'll notice a very slight unsharpness of the grain towards the corners, but the prints are nevertheless beautiful.
When choosing a IIc you should look for one with a filter drawer. The IIc is a bit too big to take off the lamp housing every time you change the filter.
I love my Focomat IIc as much as I love my Leicas. It certainly is the most beautiful enlarger in the world.
Erik.
When you want to print the whole negative with a black border, you'll have to file out the cut-out of the brass mask. The brass is 2mm thick. The filing takes some patience, but is not hard to do.
The 60mm Focotar is very good for prints up to 24x30cm. On prints of 30x40cm you'll notice a very slight unsharpness of the grain towards the corners, but the prints are nevertheless beautiful.
When choosing a IIc you should look for one with a filter drawer. The IIc is a bit too big to take off the lamp housing every time you change the filter.
I love my Focomat IIc as much as I love my Leicas. It certainly is the most beautiful enlarger in the world.
Erik.
Pablito
coco frío
Not Beseler. Omega or Saunders LPL.
The Saunders LPL 4500 is terrific. We have used them in my university's darkroom for 15 years with great success.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-LP...253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27070e3d
The Saunders LPL 4500 is terrific. We have used them in my university's darkroom for 15 years with great success.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Saunders-LP...253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27070e3d
jordanstarr
J.R.Starr
I personally use Beseler, but if you're looking to do colour, I'd recommend the LPL4500...you can use it with black and white and really fine-tune your contrast (not that you need increments between halves, but you can adjust Y and M to meet your precise). I know a master printer that uses this enlarger regularly even though he doesn't even do colour.
Edward C. Zimmermann
Nerd
A few points
Spares:
At this point in the darkroom game the issues of spare parts and service is moot. Vendor spare parts and service, if available, will tend to cost several times over the price of another replacement. The problem has gone from "finding parts and service" to having (nearly) too much. Lets all face it.. We have more or less been saving the enlargers from the scrap heap.
Given the mass squirreled away and the tiny size of the market still wanting stuff.. spares for Leitz and Durst enlargers can readily be found. Sure the prices have been going up--- not unexpectedly given the low prices (often less the than cost of the transaction) and the mass that went direct to the garbage dump during the great "film is dead" lab shutdowns--- but gear is still cheap.
Enlargers (and accesories)
For the record my favorite Durst are the 900/1200 series for MF, resp. 4x5". For miniature formats (4x4 and smaller formats, save 8x11mm) I perfer the Leitz Ic--- and yes I do own a IIc, just don't bother with it as its not in the same league as the Durst where I have excellent autofocus, choice of much better optics and much more flexible illumination (I have everything from dichroic colour, Ilford head, cold light, point source and a better range of condensors). Color and multigrade heads are both easy enough to source for the Leitz IIc but I have never yet seen much less offered a point source kit.
Spares:
At this point in the darkroom game the issues of spare parts and service is moot. Vendor spare parts and service, if available, will tend to cost several times over the price of another replacement. The problem has gone from "finding parts and service" to having (nearly) too much. Lets all face it.. We have more or less been saving the enlargers from the scrap heap.
Given the mass squirreled away and the tiny size of the market still wanting stuff.. spares for Leitz and Durst enlargers can readily be found. Sure the prices have been going up--- not unexpectedly given the low prices (often less the than cost of the transaction) and the mass that went direct to the garbage dump during the great "film is dead" lab shutdowns--- but gear is still cheap.
Enlargers (and accesories)
For the record my favorite Durst are the 900/1200 series for MF, resp. 4x5". For miniature formats (4x4 and smaller formats, save 8x11mm) I perfer the Leitz Ic--- and yes I do own a IIc, just don't bother with it as its not in the same league as the Durst where I have excellent autofocus, choice of much better optics and much more flexible illumination (I have everything from dichroic colour, Ilford head, cold light, point source and a better range of condensors). Color and multigrade heads are both easy enough to source for the Leitz IIc but I have never yet seen much less offered a point source kit.