epl1 as a street cam - yay or nay?

[Finder]

I guess I would be less confused about the objections to the E-P1 if this was not the Rangefinder Forum. In what way is the E-P1 a slower camera to use than my Mamiya 6? Or any rangefinder for that matter. Even my fine Hexar Silver is not instant or even close to that.

As for shutter lag, every camera has it. I always felt it was the photographer's responsibility to compensate for the shutter lag. I have always had to do that with my mechanical cameras.

 

[emraphoto]

shutter lag has been a killer in a LOT of cameras for me. i understand what it is (i think) and why it's there. canon g's? great camera but shutter lag. hexar rf? brilliant camera but lag. etc. etc.

af lag, ae lag... whatever. can't deal with it.

with that being said the gf-1 does not have shutter lag enough to bother me. scale focused (MF) with the EVF it responds as quickly as i am comfortable with. the only other compact that i have found as quick, believe it or not, was the sigma dp1. scale focused it was pretty much instant.

i am unsure why these cameras (micro 4/3) are referred to as "glorified compacts" in a derisive tone? from what i can see they are highly capable image makers. i am not going to compare them to dslr's simply because i have neither the interest nor the patience to conduct such a comparison. i am very happy with the image quality. the ONLY critiques i have is interface. if a micro 4/3 concept hits the market with an intuitive and fast interface (minus menus and buttons) i would be smitten.

 

[emraphoto]

taking into account i am easy to please. a g10 with no shutter lag would suit me fine as well.

 

[NDAv]

I reduce shutter lag on my point-and-shoot camera by assigning 4 preset focal lengths to 4 different custom modes, setting the customizable button to switch between the 4 custom modes, and presetting focus to the hyperfocal distance at each custom mode. This eliminates the need for autofocus and manual focus, while still retaining the ability to switch focal lengths. The drive mode is also set to continuous shooting. Turning off the LCD and using the optical viewfinder might make it even faster, but I have no problem with the LCD. Just point, and shoot.

Of course, unlike the m4/3 cameras, my lowly point-and-shoot camera shows an electronic focus distance scale on the LCD, which makes setting to the hyperfocal distances easier.

 

[Federico Alberto]

We can eliminate many of these causes of "shutter lag", except one, the delay in the EVF/LCD; this can only be compensated for by an optical viewfinder.

~Joe

Good point...

Olympus E-P1
Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron-R
TEWE optical external viewfinder 35-200mm.😀

 

[emraphoto]

from out on a walk with the boys...

gf-1 with 20mm f1.7 with evf

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I do have a few Commodore 64s in a box in the cellar, along with the 128 and the Amiga 1000.

I had the 128! I loved that thing. And the 64 before it, and the VIC-20. I even have a C64 emulator running on my Linux laptop, how's that for nerdy?

I'm kind of surprised nobody has thrown down the gauntlet about my comment that face detection is a valuable street photography tool. I started a separate thread about this last year, and Al Kaplan, bless his departed soul, mocked me mercilessly, and the discussion never took off. He wrote:

Just hire somebody to focus the camera, maybe compose as well. Hell, let him set the shutter speed and the aperture while you're at it. Then you can brag about your fantastic photographs because, after all, you picked out the guy you hired, right?

I got his point, of course, but scale focusing, say, a 28 at f/11 is already pretty much as "automatic" as face detection, so why not actually semi-guarantee that your subject will be in focus? Anyway, I have done this, to very good effect, with m4/3. It means that you can shoot street at low ISO wide open and not worry about your shutter speed being too low.

 

[Federico Alberto]

I'm kind of surprised nobody has thrown down the gauntlet about my comment that face detection is a valuable street photography tool.

I must confess I've never used face detection. Normally I shoot with a preselected focus point, for compositional purposes.

Promise to give it a try in a wedding I'll be attending this Saturday. Since I'll be just another guest, I'll just focus on those candid shots the official photographer won't be paying any attention to.

Hopefully it should be very similar to the experience of street photography.

 

[kbg32]

"shutter lag is the delay between triggering the shutter and when the photograph is actually recorded"

 

[Finder]

"shutter lag is the delay between triggering the shutter and when the photograph is actually recorded"

Now, you are just confusing the conversation with facts. 😀

 

[MaxElmar]

Ok. Now you made spit a little coffee on my screen. LOL.

 

[Finder]

Soon all our lenses will have comma...

 

[emerica]

finally got my epl-1! like it so far. waiting for a couple more lenses to arrive and a 4/3rds adapter. for now, wanted to see if veteran street photog/low light photog e-p users in the forum think the following settings are decent default settings (Federico, is this below what you mean by separating AFL from AEL in the *B section so it doesn't hunt?). mainly followed Brian Mosley's ep2 "vid http://www.mu-43.com/showthread.php?p=3797#post3797"

*A "AF/MF"
AF mode: S-AF
AF Area: multi point (for face detect, also Mabelsound's suggestion)
Reset lens: off
Bulb focusing: off

*B "button"
AEL/AFL:
1. S-AF to mode 2 (halfway S-AF, fully AEL/EXP, AEL/AFL button is for AEL). *note, the AEL/AFL button is missing on EPL1 but can be programmed as the fn or rec button - will it even be necessary to press the AEL/AFL button at all?
2. C-AF mode 2, same as above
3. MF to mode 3 (halfway AEL, fully exposure, AEL/AFL button to S-AF)

*c "release"
release priority s: off
release priority c: on

plus, picture mode natural, jpegs for large fine (not superfine, as supposedly no visible difference), and noise filter i left on standard - but what should this be set on, low? i don't normally shoot in raw and supposedly olympus jpegs are quite good so wondering what to set latter on.

thanks!

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

I would set the jpegs on the highest quality, if you're going to shoot jpegs, and set autofocus to single point. The multipoint will not always focus on the thing you want (face detect can be set to toggle with the FN button, if you want to use it). It's more precise generally to focus on what you want, then recompose.

Enjoy!

 

[emerica]

true, usually i shoot single point as the multipoint focuses on something random a lot leaving me with blurry photos. but, i found out that for facedetect to work it must be on multipoint. so instead of programming the fn button for facedetect, i just leave it set 'on' but really it's only on when i toggle to multipoint focus, which is easy with the left thumb pad. i don't have too many programmable buttons on the e-pl1, only the fn and the rec sadly, unlike it's siblings.

i found this from amateurphotographer:

"Setting the desired AF modes is reasonably easy with the E-P1, but using face detection is more complicated than it needs to be. The complications arise from the fact that the single-point/multi-point AF options are in a different menu tab from face detection, and when single-point AF mode is set it overrides face detection.

So, if like me you normally shoot in single-point AF mode, but you want to switch to face detection for a portrait, you must first change from single to multi-point AF mode, and only then should you activate face detection from its separate tab on the Live Control menu. If you don't, the E-P1 will tease you by tracking faces on the screen, but refusing to focus on them, reverting instead to single-point AF."

 

[Federico Alberto]

(Federico, is this below what you mean by separating AFL from AEL in the *B section so it doesn't hunt?).

...

*B "button"
AEL/AFL:
1. S-AF to mode 2 (halfway S-AF, fully AEL/EXP, AEL/AFL button is for AEL). *note, the AEL/AFL button is missing on EPL1 but can be programmed as the fn or rec button - will it even be necessary to press the AEL/AFL button at all?

...

thanks!

No my friend, for S-AF it should be Mode 3:

• Half way: AEL
• Fully: Exposure
• AEL/AFL: S-AF

That way every time you press the shutter, all it'll do is to expose and capture the image.

If your E-PL1 does not have a separate AEL/AFL button, I'm sure you can program the Fn button for S-AF AFL.

If that's the case, then all you'll do from then on is to press the Fn button just when you need to focus. The rest of the time you'll be shooting as if in manual mode.

Good luck!

 

[kbg32]

I guess for butt detection there might even be a market.

You might even get a lot of images with faces instead of the "backs" of people.

 

[Tom Diaz]

hi there rff folks:

anyone have the epl1 and use it successfully for street photography?

briefly handled an epl1 in an sf camera shop today and while i had high street cam hopes for it initially (ie. to deck out with the panny 20mm lens, the oly evf, and finally get some good rf glass) sadly i didn't like it. one, it felt a tad cheap, which i wouldn't have minded ultimately, but wow the menu system/handling didn't seem intuitive without a control wheel. supposedly buttons can be reprogrammed/customizable if you dig deep in the menu system...

maybe i just didn't try it out long enough? i may just wait for the samsung nx10 instead but moving to a 'closed' system seems like a bad gamble...

thoughts?

I owned one briefly, but I was glad to get rid of it. I liked the looks and am a big Olympus fan from way back, but it did not please me.

I found the autofocus to be way too slow for street shooting. Granted you can use an optical viewfinder and zone-focus, but this is 2010, so I am not sure why you should pay big bucks and then have to do that. I much prefer my Panasonic G1. I think I would like the GF1 also, but I like electronic viewfinders (not a rear-mounted LCD) and autofocusing, so for me the G1 is the right set of features and is way less expensive than a GF1 plus its EVF.

As with any m-4/3 camera, I like being able to bolt my Leica M lenses (and other stuff) on the machine. That's fun. However, I think the camera should work well for street shooting with some modern purpose-built lenses too. So, since you mention the renowned Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, why put it on a camera that doesn't focus fast?

You can see some gorgeous street photographs taken with the camera, including in this thread perhaps, but a skilled enough photographer will shoot some beautiful stuff despite the camera's shortcomings.

Tom

 

[Federico Alberto]

Because of IBIS

Because of IBIS

As with any m-4/3 camera, I like being able to bolt my Leica M lenses (and other stuff) on the machine. That's fun. However, I think the camera should work well for street shooting with some modern purpose-built lenses too. So, since you mention the renowned Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, why put it on a camera that doesn't focus fast?
Tom

Because with Olympus µ4/3 bodies, all my lenses are stabilized, no matter their manufacturer or AF system.

Not to mention the outstanding IQ of their JPGs. Since I got my E-P1, I stopped shooting raw for good!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/21122418@N07/4455750203/

 

[emerica]

good points

good points

> Tom: thank you, you bring up many valid points. however, in response to "the renowned Panasonic 20mm f/1.7, why put it on a camera that doesn't focus fast?", i will find out today when it arrives in the mail how fast or slow it autofocuses 🙂 i've read from other forums that it focuses quite fast on the olympus, possibly a tad slower than on the gf1, so it's a non-issue. the problems with autofocusing are mainly with the olympus lenses themselves, for instance the olympus 14-42mm zoom uses front element or group focusing.

> Federico: what settings do you leave your pen's noise filter as? i set mine to low vs. slight loss of detail from standard. and do you do set any + or - values for in-camera sharpening or contrast? about the S-AF mode 3 setting you recommended programming fn/rec for AF, isn't this a tad superfluous? since, if shooting MF wouldn't it be pretty much the same setting with the added benefit of manual focus and/or AF when needed?