Epson customer service Redux

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loretdem

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Exactly two weeks after FedExing my R-D1 to Epson Indiana, I received a package from Epson containing my brand new replacement camera. My old serial number was 453X and my new replacement's serial number is 468X. Very close in vintage. Since my camera had been replaced I worried that all that I accomplished was trading in one with minor problems for another with unknown problems.

The replacement camera is damn near perfect. Frame lines are square. Focusing patch is also square (very surprising!). Also amazing is no dead/hot pixels even at 1600 JPEG! Rangefinder focusing is so accurate that even my 90mm Elmarit is sharp wide open at f2.8, something impossible with my original R-D1 even when it was brand new. All six of my lenses work perfectly. None of the above was true of my original camera that this one replaced. Not only do I feel extremely lucky but I have to tell you that if you have an R-D1 that is just right it is amazing! I had to shoot a portrait for the cover of a local magazine and decided to use this new R-D1 with the 90 Elmarit and a 50 Summicron. I shot available light and wirelessly with studio strobes, color and b&w. I never needed to break out my backup equipment. The results were superb and the session felt great. Shooting digitally with a rangefinder camera and Leica glass is like nothing else. You can keep your 5D, D200, 1DS, D2X, whatever. No thanks, not for me. This camera/lens combination suits me just fine.

Obviously I'm happy but I think this is a good time to sum up where we're at with this Epson situation based on my experience and of others who have shared theirs on this forum and elsewhere:
-Currently Epson is replacing in-warranty R-D1's in a 2-week timeframe. According to their own Second Level Department there is no post-warranty service program in place at this time. Or they are simply not aware of it. Based on my experience the various corporate service departments Epson has in California, Canada and Indiana do not necessarily know what they are each up to. It seems that the R-D1 project does not merit a comprehensive corporate policy regarding service. Unfortunate.
-It could be that the latest batch of replacements are better than the previous ones although there is no info to back this up. Regardless if your R-D1 is approaching the end of its warranty you might want to take advantage of Epson's only choice for you which is replacement. Of course your experience may not even come close to mine, so this would still be something of a gamble.
-As of early 2006 it is not possible to have an R-D1 serviced or even CLA'd in the United States. This state of affairs is completely unacceptable and we must demand that Epson rectifies it as soon as possible. It seems to me that worldwide sales of this camera have been so low (probably less than 4000) that some higher-up decided it would be economically advantageous to just replace cameras instead of servicing them since they've committed with Cosina to produce 10000 of them. That's just a wild opinion but nevertheless we really need to make some noise so that Epson USA knows that we're serious about this inexcusable situation. Do we need a lawyer?
-I can't see how one can recommend this camera to anyone even though I think it is the greatest digital camera available today. It is too much of an expensive gamble what with Epson's lack of adequate support. They would have to provide independent service centers with parts availability and manuals (like they do in their printer business) and they ought to cut the price to under US$2000 soon. If you can afford to take a chance on this camera as the situation stands today then that's great. Otherwise I'd have to give the R-D1 a thumbs down because of Epson's poor marketing and service policies. That's so tragic given it's such a great camera. I'm lucky I have a good one for now and I'll use it professionally and otherwise until I cannot anymore. Hopefully that will be for a long time. At least until Leica delivers its digital M.

-Carlos Loret de Mola
 
1600 JPEG, not Raw. I know, it's unbelievable but so far no hot/dead pixels are yet noticeable. I'll keep shooting at this setting to see if they show up randomly but so far so good. Like I mentioned I feel VERY lucky. I must've used up some karma on this one.
How do I check for firmware version?
-Carlos
 
Not completely sure, but my metadata is created by E04106-0100. Assume this it the software in the camera, it's visible from Bridge under "software".
 
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Yeah, what's your firmware version? Maybe they've updated and put them in repair units and didn't tell the rest of us! The hot pixels can be mapped out by a firmware fix, something that they should've done in the first place.
 
loretdem,
I share the experience and the worries. I also received a replacement unit recently (mid-late 46xx) and it is my best body so far, (had too many). No hot pixels (1600 raw, didn't try jpeg), but it is also much better taken care of- very fine rangefinder adjustment, etc. I also thought they might have added a hot pixel mapping algorithm.
I am waiting to see what's from Leica, but I need another body. I don't like changing lenses with a rangefinder (have 3 M film bodies) especially not with lenses I like on my body all the time. (now it is the 12mm VC and the 35 lux asph). However, I am extremely worried to make a total 6000$ investment for a one year camera.... Until Epson says something about repair in the future I feel it is an extremely irresponsible step to take. If they reallly going to turn back to us then my epson goes to the "collectible" shelf, btw, a very respectible achievement for a2005 product.
 
rami G said:
loretdem,
I share the experience and the worries. I also received a replacement unit recently (mid-late 46xx) and it is my best body so far, (had too many). No hot pixels (1600 raw, didn't try jpeg), but it is also much better taken care of- very fine rangefinder adjustment, etc. I also thought they might have added a hot pixel mapping algorithm.
I am waiting to see what's from Leica, but I need another body. I don't like changing lenses with a rangefinder (have 3 M film bodies) especially not with lenses I like on my body all the time. (now it is the 12mm VC and the 35 lux asph). However, I am extremely worried to make a total 6000$ investment for a one year camera.... Until Epson says something about repair in the future I feel it is an extremely irresponsible step to take. If they reallly going to turn back to us then my epson goes to the "collectible" shelf, btw, a very respectible achievement for a2005 product.
Click to expand...

Very well put. Thank you for your response. I would like to think that the latest R-D1's being delivered from now on are all as good as my sample. I have another thread going here asking for any info on R-D1's over serial number 5000. So far it's been a dead thread, as I expected. I'd love to see Epson sell the remaining 5000 cameras (soon!) and be able to rectify the problems of the few troublesome samples from the first 5000 in a manner that is fair to those intrepid owners who invested early on in this first-of-its kind digital camera. Replacement cameras with good quality control is, I think, fair enough for in-warranty service. Out-of-warranty is where Epson needs to put their attention. I'd just like to get my camera CLA'd every now and then.
I, too, prefer the 12 UW Heliar and the 35 Summilux ASPH with this camera. Great combination. An R-D1 plus a Leica digital M with these 2 lenses would be, for me, the foundation of the ultimate digital kit. Total cost of my ultimate basic digital kit: about US$11000. Trying to justify the high cost of digital rangefinder photography to the Nikon/Canon DSLR crowd: not priceless. Not even possible! :D
BTW, I found ONE hot pixel at 1600 JPEG. Still pretty good, though.
-Carlos
 
Just one hot pixel....wow...that is a rare R-D1. You're making me jealous. <G>

Sean
 
So can we recap; what will Epson accept for a warranty replacement (or what they may call warranty service) aside from the obviously defective units?

1. hot pixels?
2. off kilter RF or frameline patches?
3. back/front focusing of lenses?

So you just ring up Epson customer service and explain the problem and they give you a return/service number and you ship it back to them?

And can others attest that the turnaround recently has been around two weeks?

Thanks, Charlie
 
saxshooter said:
So you just ring up Epson customer service and explain the problem and they give you a return/service number and you ship it back to them?

And can others attest that the turnaround recently has been around two weeks?
Click to expand...
That's pretty much the process that I went through. When I made the initial contact, the rep said my laundry list of problems included a couple that would justify returning the camera. I don't know which issues specifically though.

The story I got is that it takes 7 to 10 working days for them to "fix" a product. I suspect that's just a standard Epson answer that doesn't take any R-D1 peculiarities into account. They've had my camera for two weeks, but I think the repair timeframe got stretched due to the holidays.
 
andyturk said:
That's pretty much the process that I went through. When I made the initial contact, the rep said my laundry list of problems included a couple that would justify returning the camera. I don't know which issues specifically though.

The story I got is that it takes 7 to 10 working days for them to "fix" a product. I suspect that's just a standard Epson answer that doesn't take any R-D1 peculiarities into account. They've had my camera for two weeks, but I think the repair timeframe got stretched due to the holidays.
Click to expand...
Well...
the deal is to get them to issue you a return authorization. Back/front focus is a likely candidate. They might tell you that that is a very rare problem (!) and that they will FIX it in Indiana. What is most important to remember (and certainly NOT recommended to discuss with Epson's customer service reps) is that intercommunication between the various departments is virtually nonexistent and that any statement made by any rep at any time may be contradicted later, even by the same rep on a different day!
So...
if you get them to take it back (which isn't too hard to do, just go with the flow until they agree to do so), it is pretty certain that 2 weeks or so later you will get a new replacement returned to you. My comments only apply to Epson USA.
My experience was similar to what Andy is describing but I received my replacement exactly two weeks later regardless of the holidays.
-Carlos Loret de Mola
 
I just got 001871 back as an exchange for my original body, 004600. The new one looks unused. It's got bunch of hot pixels as shown by a 1 second exposure at ISO 1600 with a lens cap mounted. The vertical alignment is slightly off, but the infinity focus is *way* out. It doesn't front-focus as badly as my original, which is nice.

So, should I send it back, send it off to DAG, or just get out the screwdrivers?
 
andyturk said:
I just got 001871 back as an exchange for my original body, 004600. The new one looks unused. It's got bunch of hot pixels as shown by a 1 second exposure at ISO 1600 with a lens cap mounted. The vertical alignment is slightly off, but the infinity focus is *way* out. It doesn't front-focus as badly as my original, which is nice.

So, should I send it back, send it off to DAG, or just get out the screwdrivers?
Click to expand...

Andy, are you in the USA? Did you send your camera to Epson in Indiana? Do you know the firmware/software versions for both cameras in your JPEG EXIF? When you say that the new one looks unused are you saying that the inner smaller box that the actual body was in was sealed and never opened? Was the packaging "virginal" as in all documentation, software, etc never used, including the charger cable and neckstrap?
Your experience so far has been so different to mine. Could others chime in with their recent Epson warranty experiences and state in which country they're located?
 
loretdem said:
Andy, are you in the USA? Did you send your camera to Epson in Indiana? Do you know the firmware/software versions for both cameras in your JPEG EXIF? When you say that the new one looks unused are you saying that the inner smaller box that the actual body was in was sealed and never opened? Was the packaging "virginal" as in all documentation, software, etc never used, including the charger cable and neckstrap?
Your experience so far has been so different to mine. Could others chime in with their recent Epson warranty experiences and state in which country they're located?
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm in the USA and I sent my original camera to Indiana (the people on the phone were Canadian though).

I'm not sure how to find the firmware versions. How does one do that?

The replacement camera arrived in the inner box, but without the fancy outer with the nice gray/black graphics. The replacement wasn't exactly sealed, but it did look clean and still had the protective film on the viewfinder. There wasn't any film on the dial glass though. I say it looked "unused" just because it was very clean and apparently in mint condition.

It had a battery inside, but no other accessories.
 
This is exactly what scares me about Epson.

Complete and total inconsistency in handling replacements. It seems as though the "policy" is made up on the spot by whoever happens to be answering the phone. "Seat of the pants" policy this far along is not reassuring.

I'd DRIVE to Indiana to pick up a replacement if I could, but I am not willing to play the ship and pray game.
 
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andyturk said:
Yes, I'm in the USA and I sent my original camera to Indiana (the people on the phone were Canadian though).

I'm not sure how to find the firmware versions. How does one do that?

The replacement camera arrived in the inner box, but without the fancy outer with the nice gray/black graphics. The replacement wasn't exactly sealed, but it did look clean and still had the protective film on the viewfinder. There wasn't any film on the dial glass though. I say it looked "unused" just because it was very clean and apparently in mint condition.

It had a battery inside, but no other accessories.
Click to expand...
Well I'm totally baffled. And I must agree with brightsky's feelings about this weird situation.
If you use Photoshop you can use either Bridge or the File Browser to preview your images before opening the actual files. Select a JPEG, not a RAW, that you shot with your old camera and one that you shot with your replacement. Check in the Metadata tab for the software version under Camera/EXIF data. Mine reads E04106-0101 (current JPEGs). BTW are the file numbers back to the beginning (EPSN0001.xxx)?
My replacement arrived earlier this month as if I had bought a brand new camera from B&H. And as I've mentioned it's a damn good sample.
I'm not you and you have your own priorities but I would call them back and start over again. I know, I know... and honestly I don't envy you but that's what I would do. I didn't mind shooting with my M2 while this R-D1 business got resolved to my satisfaction, and under your circumstances I'd just continue shooting film until they provide you with a replacement that suits you. Just my opinion, that's all.
-Carlos
 
Reading all of the above is very worrying.

I have just returned my 2nd R-D1 back to Epson UK.

I contacted them about the first one as it was front focussing. I took that one back to the dealer that i bought it from and he sent it back. It was just the body and the boxes that went back.

Seven weeks later a brand new body, but with my hotshoe ( serial number ) on it.
However the box that it was in had certainly done the rounds.
Finally got around to trying out this body at close focussing distances with my 35, 50 and 90.
The 35 and 50 are showing a rear focus problem, IE focussing behind the actual point focussed on, but the 90 appears to be spot on !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Also the vertical alignment is out, and really throws you if there is any text in the focussing patch.

After speaking with Epsons Helpdesk and sending them some JPegs taken with each of the lenses, they agreed that there was indeed a problem and arranged for a Courier pickup of the body only and boxes again, so that they could check it out and "fix it".

That was yesterday.

Today i received a telephone call to say that it had arrived and they would get back to me.

I also put in a covering letter mentioning the previous seven week wait and asked about a temporary body to use, however i have not heard anything and am not holding my breath.

Eric.
 
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Carlos - regarding firmware numbers

Carlos - regarding firmware numbers

Carlos, I discovered something odd with these firmware versions.

Because you seem to have one of the newest serial numbers, I assumed that E04106-0101 was the "latest" firmware version and E04106-0100 was the original.

However, when I checked the firmware version on my 0019xx serial number camera I was quite surprised to see E04106-0101. My camera was purchased in July 2005.

Problems with these units do not appear to correlate with batches of serial numbers so I am perplexed about the two different firmware versions interspersed among the serial numbers. If date of production is not the key, what is?

I wish they were sold through Target, as the return policy would be straightforward and consistent. :D
 
So, brightsky - what's your hot pixel situation? Any chance that E4106-0101 might acually map out a few of my hotties?
 
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