Epson mulls future digital camera launch

[LCT]

...No modern camera manufacturer is going to be at all interested in modifying a good, saleable design to suit the fringe dwellers unless there's a sound commercial reason that relates to the mainstream purchasers too.

Reason why you are not interested by those manufacturers as a RFF member i guess. We may well like using SLRs, P/S, EVILs and the like but we need rangefinders here. And some of us need interchangeable lenses as well. A least i do and i don't care very much if mainstream purchasers prefer chimping with their suberb little plastic gameboy. 😀 😉

 

[back alley]

i don't need full frame...i have nothing against a crop factor.
sure, it can be inconvenient sometimes but it's not really all that big of a deal.
but if it can keep the price down then all the better. i already know that i can't afford an m9...

 

[menos]

i don't need full frame...i have nothing against a crop factor.
sure, it can be inconvenient sometimes but it's not really all that big of a deal.
but if it can keep the price down then all the better. i already know that i can't afford an m9...

Thats not, how I mean it (darn FF or crop discussion :bang🙂 😀

I mean it that way:
If a new DRF comes along (and it won't be cheap for sure) - would you think about buying it, having two perfectly fine already cropped R-D1 at hand?

Me - no thanks.

If it comes around, it better be a lot better or a lot cheaper than the competition - my guess is, that it sways more towards the little better and slightly cheaper (in technical numbers) than the competition and tries selling on that (old Japanese sales strategy, working for cars, stereos, kitchen radios, …, cameras |?| …).

 

[bwcolor]

I suspect that many of us are keeping our cars...etc. a good bit longer than when life was 'wine and roses'.

 

[LCT]

....I hope, that if Cosina+EPSON is up to something, it is entirely smashing, has a competitive FF sensor and comes with a reasonable price for it's performance...

Hard to believe unless it is not a rangefinder i'm afraid. A small FF DRF like the M9 is very expensive to make anyway and there is not much room left by s/h M8s in the niche occupied by R-D1/s/x in the past. If ever PanaLeica, Cosina and others (Epson?) are up to something it must be an EVIL with interchangeable lenses more probably. Something like that perhaps, i don't know.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100060771.pdf

 

[sig]

Hard to believe unless it is not a rangefinder i'm afraid. A small FF DRF like the M9 is very expensive to make anyway and there is not much room left by s/h M8s in the niche occupied by R-D1/s/x in the past. If ever PanaLeica, Cosina and others (Epson?) are up to something it must be an EVIL with interchangeable lenses more probably. Something like that perhaps, i don't know.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20100060771.pdf

Why is it so hard to make a FF digital rangefinder? Is it not just to add a FF sensor to an existing body?

The distance between the lens and sensor is supposedly an issue, but as Leica has done that is fixed by heavy processing of the files (I am making a big assumption here based on the coding used on the lenses and I believe it is visible if you use the wrong code). I guess this is also why the digital Ms is not super fast in writing the files to the card.

Anyway I believe that if Leica can make a FF digital rf for $7000 somebody else can make for less. But will somebody do it?

 

[eddie1960]

It depends on the type of deal cosina and epson had but i would not be suprised after a successful launch of the x100 in the spring to see fuji/cosina make an RF announcement in the fall or 2012 photokina
makes more sense than epson trying to get into the camera business (the only people who even realise epson made the rd-1 are probably all members here certainly most of the buyers would be) Fuji is big in japan and the cosina fuji ventures have been successful models of small run profitabilty models

 

[eddie1960]

Yeah, where's Zorki when you need them? 😀 😀

yep a fed zorki co production that's the ticket😀

 

[wgerrard]

Anyway I believe that if Leica can make a FF digital rf for $7000 somebody else can make for less. But will somebody do it?

That seems quite likely.

I think we will know when FF sensor prices have dropped enough to allow someone to market a $2000 FF DRF when we start seeing FF or larger sensors in mirrorless cameras. Ironically, their existence will cut into sales of that FF DRF.

 

[LeicaFoReVer]

Maybe before RF brands, someone will make a FF point and shoot and we will use adapters to use M lenses. Is it not possible? Who would expect sony create nex line.

 

[DNG]

It's all wishful thinking for those who want an lower priced [new] alternative to a [used] M8 as far as price goes...

I have considered a R-D1, but, it's already a DRF that will need CLA soon.... electronics don't last more than 15 years at best. Who will do the CLA?
Example: I bought a Pentax Super Program (1980's camera) that has a circuit board and spring loaded buttons that did not need to be replaced. I spent $50.00 for a basic CLA... But if I needed a new circuit board, add another $50.00-$75.00 + labor, and it most likely be a from a parts camera... so, it may or may-not last another 10 years or so....

So Why should I wait for a new DRF?....
The M8 is now from $2k-$3k depending on the condition and if it has any factory refurb done to update the early models.

Could a new DRF be in that price range..[new] compete with an M8 that can be had for the same price, and with a great CS for decades to come?

It would have to from a camera maker that has a long history of service to be able to keep these [new] DRF in top shape for decades to come. or at least for 20 years.

For many of use a $3k expense better last a long time...that price is not a buy and replace when it gets old. Me included!

 

[shadowfox]

That's a very good point IMO! Digital photography is very different to analog in this area ... lens aside your roll of tri-x will give you pretty much the same result no matter what camera you put it in.

Now wouldn't that be a cool idea to be able to use different media (better ones as they come along) with a single body.

Wonder where did we go wrong with this whole digital thing... 🙄

 

[Leigh Youdale]

It's all wishful thinking for those who want an lower priced [new] alternative to a [used] M8 as far as price goes...

I agree, and for a real-life recent example of this I think you only have to look at the expectations and then the outrage when the new Bessa III folder was first announced, and finally priced well above the second-hand value of 30-50 year old folders. It seems everyone wanted the new camera but nobody wanted to pay more than they could pick up an old folder for. Unrealistic and unrealised expectations.

If you look at the thread, before the price was announced 78% of respondents said they would buy it. Then only 65% said they'd buy it if it was under $1000, 22% said they'd buy it at $1500, 7% said they'd MAYBE buy it at $2000.

I think Cosina and Fuji had all this figured out and deliberately made the production run a limited one. Although new units are still available for sale out of stock the price is only a little less than the hyped-up launch price and I doubt very much if there will ever be another production run. Probably was never intended to be one.
Now they announce the GF670W and I think the same thing will happen. Niche camera, limited run, priced to make a profit, positioned to boost Cosina/Fuji image, the punters will howl at the price and within 2-3 years the stock will have moved and no more new units will be produced. Something else will come along - Son of X100 maybe?

So as far as a new design of DRF with full frame sensor and all the little things that people are saying here that it MUST/SHOULD have to be attractive to them and that it must come in substantially under the second hand market price at the time for an M8, I'd say you've got Buckley's.
(That's an Australian colloquialism regarding the chance of a positive outcome, and based on the name of an old Melbourne department store known as Buckleys and Nunn. Hence the saying, "You've got two chances - Buckleys and Nunn (None). It means you've got no chance - either way.

 

[tapesonthefloor]

Epson 'not a camera manufacturer' says MD

Epson 'not a camera manufacturer' says MD

No R-D1 update to come, Epson's managing director tells PhotoRadar

And, to provide dour counterpoint to the rest of this thread, we have this:

http://www.photoradar.com/news/story/epson-not-a-camera-manufacturer-says-md

 

[keytarjunkie]

No R-D1 update to come, Epson's managing director tells PhotoRadar

And, to provide dour counterpoint to the rest of this thread, we have this:

http://www.photoradar.com/news/story/epson-not-a-camera-manufacturer-says-md

I realize this is in the Epson discussion forum, but I see no reason why the camera we're talking about has to be an Epson. Isn't the RD-1 kind of a voigtlander camera with a digital sensor anyway? I think if Fuji has the kind of success it looks like it's going to be getting with the X100, they're a possible candidate for a APS-C or "full frame" m-mount rangefinder. So is Cosina.

And yeah, a cheap Zorki digital rangefinder would be pretty wacky huh 🙂

 

[morgan]

No R-D1 update to come, Epson's managing director tells PhotoRadar

And, to provide dour counterpoint to the rest of this thread, we have this:

http://www.photoradar.com/news/story/epson-not-a-camera-manufacturer-says-md

Bah. I hope he gets coal for xmas.