emraphoto
Veteran
"What fails me is not so much the camera itself but the willingness to pay whatever high price for a device that doesn't produce significantly better images than much cheaper cameras."
what fails me is folks inability to understand that sometimes the choice is made regarding MORE than just the end all image quality.
the camera's have NEVER been cheap and folks have been buying them... why all of a sudden is the price of the m8 such a topic of concern?
for the record i have an r-d1s i love and i have an m8 on order... i will be one of those "both" folks.
what fails me is folks inability to understand that sometimes the choice is made regarding MORE than just the end all image quality.
the camera's have NEVER been cheap and folks have been buying them... why all of a sudden is the price of the m8 such a topic of concern?
for the record i have an r-d1s i love and i have an m8 on order... i will be one of those "both" folks.
Tuolumne
Veteran
The reason I will stay with my R-D1 is that if I get an M8, it's just one more reason not to shoot film ever again. Then what do I do with all of my M bodies?
/T
/T
DwF
Well-known
I am sure the M8 is a fine camera but when I went shopping and chose the RD1, I also handled the M8 which did not feel comfortable. I have shot Ms for years and the M8 does not feel like an M to me. The RD1 is more than adequate for my needs nad having owned it for a year or so now can say it has been trouble free....knock knock
georgef
Well-known
emraphoto said:
Right you are my friend! it sure is not the end-all image quality that gets people to pay the bucks for the M8. Its also, to a very large extend the red dot and no matter what anyone says, no one would pay that kind of cash for that body if it did not say LEICA on it.
Hey wait, that example has been proven already with LEICA and PANASONIC!
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
Owned both. Loved both. But the M8 was a better fit for me because of 1) more accurate RF 2) (related) longer effective base length, which translates into 3) dependably focused shots wide open with my 75/1.4, 50/1 and 50/1.4. I also like the extra resolution and the Count-the-eyebrow-hairs-and-skin-pores/medium format film quality results at low ISO. I was very sad to sell my R-D1, but I did (in part to pay for the M8) and it was the right choice. What's the fun of having a 50/1 lens, if you can't focus it accurately and repeatably? At least I couldn't -- others with younger eyes may have more luck. And the results speak for themselves.
How about: show us a recent RD-1 or M8 picture? Here's one attached.
How about: show us a recent RD-1 or M8 picture? Here's one attached.
Attachments
usayit
Well-known
georgef said:Right you are my friend! it sure is not the end-all image quality that gets people to pay the bucks for the M8. Its also, to a very large extend the red dot and no matter what anyone says, no one would pay that kind of cash for that body if it did not say LEICA on it.
Hey wait, that example has been proven already with LEICA and PANASONIC!
Exactly my thought when I read that post. In essence, it is more than just image quality... some of it falls under "status symbol". Thats fine... even now the M8 is still on my want list but just way way down there.
emraphoto
Veteran
"Right you are my friend! it sure is not the end-all image quality that gets people to pay the bucks for the M8. Its also, to a very large extend the red dot and no matter what anyone says, no one would pay that kind of cash for that body if it did not say LEICA on it.
Hey wait, that example has been proven already with LEICA and PANASONIC!"
"Exactly my thought when I read that post. In essence, it is more than just image quality... some of it falls under "status symbol". Thats fine... even now the M8 is still on my want list but just way way down there."
man i have to admit... i think the "people buy it for the status" is an easy snipe... and i'm kind of tired of hearing it really. is it possible that some folks who buy camera's such as the mp or m8 AREN'T foolish asses with more money than brains? perhaps, just perhaps there is an appreciation of the way the camera handles, operates. maybe, just maybe some folks have found a real joy in using said fine instruments... maybe, just maybe some folks have stood in the rain, wind, snow, sand etc. with their m4,5,6 whatever and it has never failed! maybe these same folks aprreciate that and develop a degree of loyalty resulting.
if you really, really believe that my single credential for a camera purchase is the "red dot" then you are truly making an erroneuos ASSumption.
in fact, i'm one of those "tapers" (GASP) who makes sure everything saying "leica" is covered on my gear so i'm not sure where vanity fit's in.
Hey wait, that example has been proven already with LEICA and PANASONIC!"
"Exactly my thought when I read that post. In essence, it is more than just image quality... some of it falls under "status symbol". Thats fine... even now the M8 is still on my want list but just way way down there."
man i have to admit... i think the "people buy it for the status" is an easy snipe... and i'm kind of tired of hearing it really. is it possible that some folks who buy camera's such as the mp or m8 AREN'T foolish asses with more money than brains? perhaps, just perhaps there is an appreciation of the way the camera handles, operates. maybe, just maybe some folks have found a real joy in using said fine instruments... maybe, just maybe some folks have stood in the rain, wind, snow, sand etc. with their m4,5,6 whatever and it has never failed! maybe these same folks aprreciate that and develop a degree of loyalty resulting.
if you really, really believe that my single credential for a camera purchase is the "red dot" then you are truly making an erroneuos ASSumption.
in fact, i'm one of those "tapers" (GASP) who makes sure everything saying "leica" is covered on my gear so i'm not sure where vanity fit's in.
LCT
ex-newbie
It is not because of status symbols that a Leica or a Porsche is good or not obviously. Despite its flaws that i can hardly bear personally, the M8 produces outstanding pictures in the best conditions and it is an undisputable reason to acquire it per se IMHO.
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usayit
Well-known
emraphoto said:
LCT said:
Oh common....
BMW, porsche etc.. (Leica M8) are wonderful cars and handle beautifully on a track but you can't deny that part of their sales are driven by simply status symbols. You can't tell me that all the hundreds of porsches and high end bimmers I see in bumper to bumper traffic everyday are all there because they handle and perform well. On the flip side, someone stating that part of the ownership of said products is the status symbol it brings isn't putting the product down. This is the same reason why the Miata (low cost sports car, Epson R-D1) was put down during its initial release; "How could such a cheap car do so well?" Well.. its still around 10+ years later and the SCCA Spec Miata is one of the most lively amateur circuits in the US... sometimes 75 cars show up in a single race.
I said: some of it falls under "status symbol".
emraphoto said: if you really, really believe that my single credential for a camera purchase is the "red dot" then you are truly making an erroneuos ASSumption.
Please learn to read and stop calling peoples asses. Didn't say the single only reason to purchase an M8 is status symbol. It is part of ownership experience just like BMW porsche etc.. It doesn't degrade the M8. I have no problems with M8 owners.... WONDERFUL. In fact the camera is still on my want list.. just way down there. What I don't like is when an M8 user preaches on the wonderful perfections of the camera without taking in its faults either and in the same breath claim that nothing else out there comes close.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/aa-07-worked.shtml
Leica M8 didn't fair to well on that trip. One failed on the trip TO the destination in the airport. Canon worked until in freezing weather (I'm a Canon shooter too). Nikon did very well.
LCT
ex-newbie
Charming. A car or a camera or whatever is good or bad to you or me whatever sociological, psychological or economical reasons other people may have to purchase it hopefully. Referring to 'status symbol' sounds arrogant and patronizing to me and does not add anything to discussions on respective merits of two good cameras IMHO but your mileage way vary obviously.usayit said:
emraphoto
Veteran
"Please learn to read"
it's a funny internet phenom i do believe... "Oh common...." posts such as these DO IN FACT get my back up.
anyhow... i most certainly remain quite "irked" by the constant assumption that the reason i would buy a leica over say a CANON or a NIKON is so i can show off the red dot. And let's be clear here... that's the implied reasoning i'm hearing... as well you are not the first nor will you be the last "internet factition' to post review links etc. and call in to question why one would choose the m8 over a canikon. shoot canon, shoot nikon... hell shoot diana for all i care however when one "implies" or "insinuates" or even "hints" on an internet forum that vanity is the driving force behind purchasing an m8 then i object, strongly.
i also "didn't say" usayit is an ass for what has transpired here... i said that the plethora of folks who continue with this "you bought it for the STATUS value" are asses. and i stand by it. the next time you poking about on the internet look it up... it's abundunt (read tired) and assinine.
it's a funny internet phenom i do believe... "Oh common...." posts such as these DO IN FACT get my back up.
anyhow... i most certainly remain quite "irked" by the constant assumption that the reason i would buy a leica over say a CANON or a NIKON is so i can show off the red dot. And let's be clear here... that's the implied reasoning i'm hearing... as well you are not the first nor will you be the last "internet factition' to post review links etc. and call in to question why one would choose the m8 over a canikon. shoot canon, shoot nikon... hell shoot diana for all i care however when one "implies" or "insinuates" or even "hints" on an internet forum that vanity is the driving force behind purchasing an m8 then i object, strongly.
i also "didn't say" usayit is an ass for what has transpired here... i said that the plethora of folks who continue with this "you bought it for the STATUS value" are asses. and i stand by it. the next time you poking about on the internet look it up... it's abundunt (read tired) and assinine.
LCT
ex-newbie
Not my words either. Please consider me out of this thread gents, with my apologies if it may help.emraphoto said:
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emraphoto
Veteran
well said lct
yeah, i reckon it would be best to bow out with an ounce of grace here...
apologies to all.
yeah, i reckon it would be best to bow out with an ounce of grace here...
apologies to all.
summilux
Well-known
M8 all the way, expensive, yes.
abumac
Well-known
I had first an R-D1s. I liked the handling, like an old one. But the RF ist very problematic. And the CS also. Now I own an M8. It is a very good camera. Allways the right light. Very few manipulating the raws in LR. And the CS is Leica. So I'm working without fear, something could go wrong. And the smaller crop is also better - cause of the DOF. It is very expensiv bit it worth the money.
Ed Schwartzreic
Well-known
I've come in late on this thread. I own both cameras, use primarily the M8, but each time I go back to the R-D1 I find myself saying "this is a great camera to use." To me the M8 is a computer attached to a Leica viewing system. It makes wonderful images and I don't know what I would do without it, but it lacks a human feel. The R-D1 feels like an oldtime RF camera. I have not had problems with mine other than the focus tracking (which I repair myself when it gets out of whack). So for fun I'll chose the R-D1 any day.
GrahamWelland
Well-known
Ed Schwartzreic said:
I'd concur with this. R-D1 is definitely a more 'analogue' camera and fun to use. Certain aspects of the usability are better with the R-D1 but image quality is where they differ significantly. (which, let's face it, they should!)
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simonape
Member
Benjamin Marks said:
I just got my M8 and also have RD-1S, I total support what Benjamin said.