trev2401
Long Live Film!!!
northernlights said:
I simply 'love' how people mock us RFusers, saying that their 5d's, bla blab la, 1ds, bla bla bla, etc etc... "why would you spend so much on bla bla bla???"
And honestly, I've seen far better work from the 5d/1ds. The exaples from northernlights reminds me of the all-too-familiar pastel look of canon, coupled with severe distortion (maybe he likes it) and colour which looks screwed up because of over pp. That and the fact that it's pics of me home, singapore..
On another note, Just wanted to thank everyone for keeping this thread going. I'm actually learning a heck of a lot just by following the comparisons between both cameras here...
Olsen
Well-known
tomasis said:
Now suddenly this has turned into a Canon - Nikon - discussion! And now we hear that Nikon is better! This is just laughable. While the two were pritty equal back in the analogue time, Canon has taken the lead in the digital time. By far. It is first now that Nikon is catching up with Canon by introducing D3. A competitor to Canon's 1Ds. Launched 5 years ago. I do not doubt that Nikon now will catch up with Canon one day, but they still have a stretch of road to go.
Olsen
Well-known
I think the pictures from Singapore were just excellent. To show the difference in picture quality between, say, 5D and M8 demands crops from far larger files. I think it is fair to say that the D-SLR leads comparatively to the two D-RF cameras available on the shelves today. Canon leads in having the most true and consistent colors 'right out of the box'. If you are not content with them you get some collossal RAW files with the largest color space in the business to manipulate.trev2401 said:I simply 'love' how people mock us RFusers, saying that their 5d's, bla blab la, 1ds, bla bla bla, etc etc... "why would you spend so much on bla bla bla???"
And honestly, I've seen far better work from the 5d/1ds. The exaples from northernlights reminds me of the all-too-familiar pastel look of canon, coupled with severe distortion (maybe he likes it) and colour which looks screwed up because of over pp. That and the fact that it's pics of me home, singapore..
On another note, Just wanted to thank everyone for keeping this thread going. I'm actually learning a heck of a lot just by following the comparisons between both cameras here...
Further....
I am suprised to see that RD-1 leads in this poll. Are there still more RD-1/RD-1S around than M8's? With all due respect, but the picture quality is far better out of the M8 than the older sensor design of the RD-1. The crop factor of the RD-1 makes it into another camera system while the M8 is far more usable. The vignetting of the RD-1 is far worse, and so on. That said, I would have loved to have some of the excellent features of the RD-1 on my M8.
Typical here is that it is not either or when it comes to D-SLR and D-RF cameras. Quite a few of us have both. So, most here speak out of direct experience with both.
But investments in one of the systems sets limits to the other. And that makes the M8 all too expensive to many. Particuarly for people in America where the price of Leica gear has rizen in pace with the fall of the dollar. To many of them Leica gear is beond their economical reach. - Which could spell the end for Leica.
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trev2401
Long Live Film!!!
Olsen said:
well, personally, of all the brands i've worked with in the last 8 yrs, Fuji seemed to have the best colours out of the box (since the s1) with whites and a dynamic range that knocks the raws from canon down the drain.
Good on you if you think the pictures of my home are great, i just felt those pictures did not do the 5d/1ds any justice, having seen much better work on screen and in print. Oh well.. to each his own.
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tomasis
Well-known
Olsen, did I ever said that Nikon is better? This just suits my taste but not everyone. I'm glad that competition exists so they are keeping to push the technology don't we? I guess I was lucky that Epson did chose Sony ccd sensor as Nikon D100 has so I could enjoy of low mp, high noise, grain and similiar PP as Nikon's. High vigneting? huh? higher crop means less vigneting. Did you ever tried a Rd1? I was sceptical at first when I received this body but I'm converted! Probably DSLR guys will never understand this based on specifications, rumours, other's experiences until they try the camera or appreciate RF capabilities. I seem to see the tendency that Canon guys must have everything most superior, highest MP, cleanest ISO, highest FPS etc. OMG I don't really care if they have spend money on every upgrade of Canon camera as D30 d60 10D 20D 30D 40D 50D at very short time.
Olsen
Well-known
For sure; Nikon needs your brand loyalty now more than ever. Nikon is now back in the game with a full frame camera and ruomors say that they will soon launch another with 20 mill. + pixels.tomasis said:
I don't have the RD-1, but a close friend of mine have one. I have seen a lot of files, both his and others as tests on the Net etc. Despite it's smaller sensor the RD-1 vignettes far more than M8. Not the least Sean Reid's tests show this. His tests of wide angle lenses here:http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/rd-1-lens.shtml
and fast lenses, here: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/fastlensreview.shtml
All this has to be rewritten to correspond with the results that now can be obtainable with the M8. Sean Reid is in the process of doing this. Gradually. On his own site here: http://www.reidreviews.com/reidreviews/
It is a wast difference in picture quality, I think, between the RD-1 and the M8. First of all expressed in a larger and better suited sensor on the M8, but also through software tricks to equalize vignetting and color fringing.
RD-1 is better at ergonomics - although most Leica enthusiasts won't admit that. Possibly a little better at reliability too, while Leica has a better world wide service organisation. And so on.
It seems obvious to me that there is more RD-1 users around here. Or that the price of the M8 is simply forbiddingly expensive compared to the RD-1. Which is sad. This shows that there is space in the market place for a cheaper/simper digital RF camera. - A signal to Epson, Cosina, Zeiss etc. - and Leica....
tomasis
Well-known
olsen, you did sum up all pretty nice. I agree with everything you wrote. The big reason that I did chose Rd1 is the price. Other things as ergonomics is bonus. Myself I'm an amateur and do shoot at rare occasions. So I thought it might be good alternative to my film camera setup and I could investigate more money to some nice lenses I need. If I have to be frank, digital files don't appeal to me compared to Trix films. I almost don't use iso 200-400 only 800-1600 to get nice grain and avoid the digital plasticity. I think that 6mp is enough for me when I print almost only A4 papers. It might be capable up to A3 with some PP. It is really up to one's own preferences. Rd1 has some drawbacks: limit 2gb sd cards, bad viewfinder compared to M4, very slow writing to memory card, a bit large at height. But after all, I feel quite happy and creative with the camera and I want forget all disaster with DSLR. I know for sure that I will use a digital M body in future. For now, Rd-1 either M8 don't even replace my film body but are only a complement for my experiments, bad shoots
otaku
Established
I'd still buy a leica even if no one knew what they are (wait no one I know does!) I buy/use them cause I like them, the way they feel, the images they enable me to take and of course the history
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
You're applying a bit of knowledge universally where that bit of knowledge is only for wide-angle focal lengths, and if, only if that lens has been 6-bit coded and if, and only if you have a UV/IR-cut filter and if, only if you've set the camera to do lens recognition (for 6-bit coded lenses). It's for correcting the cyan-shift on the corners (due to Physics that I won't go into here).Olsen said:
The "equalizing" of the "vignetting" and "color fringing" is already happening at the hardware level, with the microlenses on the sensor. Something the R-D1 sorely lacks.
Who are these Leica enthusiasts that "won't admit that"? The R-D1 has superior "ergonomics" design than any of the Leica Ms. I've never read or heard any Leica M8 owner say otherwise; if you have, then I'd like to see who's in denial.Olsen said:
It is also obvious that the Ferrari is simply forbiddingly expensive compared to the Toyota Yaris. It is very sad, indeed.Olsen said:
kevin m
Veteran
So the performance gap between the Ferrari and the Toyota is the same as the performance gap between the RD-1 and the M8? I would think the differences are much more subtle than that.
tomasis
Well-known
Who cares about it? I don't know why I care about this here, lol though I love cars analogies. Actually CV is a Fiat which is not necessarily bad. Fiat owns Ferrarikevin m said:
500 is not that bad!
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Yes, that is exactly what I said.kevin m said:
Oh, I should state that was not what I said; you never know...
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
A lot of people.tomasis said:
kevin m
Veteran
Too bad the M8 isn't half the chick-magnet a Ferrari is.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I digresskevin m said:Too bad the M8 isn't half the chick-magnet a Ferrari is.
kevin m
Veteran
Is there a picture of a Ferrari on the LCD?
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
I think it was a photo of me. I'm no Ferrari. Just ask my ex(es).kevin m said:Is there a picture of a Ferrari on the LCD?
jan normandale
Film is the other way
I can't afford the divorce settlement if I become a 'chick magnet'
BTW wasn't that first said by "Squiggy" on Laverne and Shirley
BTW wasn't that first said by "Squiggy" on Laverne and Shirley
Olsen
Well-known
Gabriel M.A. said:
Sure, I use my M8 with lenses no longer than 50 mm. But I shoot regularly with other than Leica glas. All from Zeiss 25 mm to Voitländer 15 mm. Even with these to latter lenses vignetting is low on an M8 compared to on a RD-1. Filters on my Leica lenses I use only whenever somebody complains that their clothes arn't recorded in the right colors.
Most Leica enthusiast are very conservative and 'protective' regarding the shape and design of their camera. That's why Leica don't dare to change to something more ergonomic.
I would guess that the price of a Ferrari Scuderia costs some 70,000 to 100,000 US $ more in the US compared to last year. Here in Norway the price (before taxes) has dropped with - about - 36,000 US $. Just because of currency fluctuations.
georgef
Well-known
amazing how a FIAT commands 157 posts against a FERRARI
I would have thought the analogy to be more like a 1961 JAG type "E" to a 2007 BMW M3! Sure the beamer will run circles around the jag, but put them side by side and...well...the jag will attract car fans and the beamer will attract BMW fans.
I would have thought the analogy to be more like a 1961 JAG type "E" to a 2007 BMW M3! Sure the beamer will run circles around the jag, but put them side by side and...well...the jag will attract car fans and the beamer will attract BMW fans.