mdarnton
Well-known
I guess I'm one of the odd men out here: I think the question is a good one, and I think it can be answered. And, who cares if it's pixel-peeping--so what? Anyway, this doesn't attempt to answer the question, but it's an interesting attempt at a similar type of comparison from which you might draw some information: http://cdtp-photography.blogspot.com/2011/09/camera-shoot-out.html
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Realize that there are several factors that impact file size beside resolution. My standard print test file is only 12.6 Mb. But it is an 8 bit greyscale file of an 8x10 neg at 400 dpi. I do not know what scanner was used. It is whatever the Library of Congress used to do digital archives of its FSA Walker Evans negs. But it is one of the cleanest printing files I have.
marameo
Established
Where would the evaluation of differences take place, computer screen or final print?
The best digital camera will normaly looks "better" on the screen. Yet, digital full frame and MF film negative have different visual imprinting and that's what matters the most.
bjolester
Well-known
Well it's not so easy unfortunately.
With calibrated Betterscanning holders, the V7x0 can reach about 2300x3000 ppi +/- 5%.
From a 6x7 original this would give about "40mp equivalent".
But a 40mp digital camera would fare better in reality, thanks to better microcontrast and "cleaner" output. Our vision system likes microcontrast and does not like noise.
That said, a high quality 6x7 original skillfully scanned on a V7x0 is still a treat, and an excellent source for a gorgeous print.
To get the best quality out of a V7x0, I recommend Betterscanning holders, reversed wet mounting, Vuescan Pro and a ColorRaid IT8 V50 target. Not an expensive bundle, by the way.
Fernando
Thank you for providing such an insightful answer! I will look into to the Betterscanning holders and your other suggestions for best quality scans on the Epson.
bjolester
Well-known
Thank you all for interesting comments and good advice
Fernando2
Well-known
Video tutorial about reversed wetmounting on a V700, using Betterscanning holder. In italian, but may be of some guidance even without audio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRRWryOrpnE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRRWryOrpnE
Fernando2
Well-known
charjohncarter
Veteran
Fernando2, thanks for the Reverse Wet Mounting video. It is easy enough to understand, just two questions I was unable to get the name of the actual wetting agent and if you have to use Anti-Newton Glass? It looked like you did not need to use special glass.
It was nice of the three of you to make this video.
It was nice of the three of you to make this video.
Fernando2
Well-known
Hi John, thanks for the kind words.
The wetting agent is Kami 2001, a special fluid purposedly made for scanning. It was very popular among drum scanner operators, because it does not deteriorate film nor acrylic drums; plus it does not leave residues (you just let everything dry and in a few minutes all is clean).
We buy it in Italy from GRAFA but it should be easy to source.
The sheets are made from mylar I think; we use the 0.05mm thickness variety, but 0.1mm sheets are easier to find.
The Betterscanning holder we use is the plain (non-AntiNewton) version; it's much better suited to wet mounting because it does not have the micro-wrinkles the AA version has.
Fernando
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Fernando, may I echo the appreciation of your contributions?
I am using a 6x4.5 at the moment and have been researching a scanning solution. For 35mm I have used a Plustek 8100 (I only scan B/W) so needed a second solution.
The V850 is now on the market in the UK with the "improved" holders. Whilst I understand the scanner will perform much as the V750, with the new light source being a variable, I would appreciate your views when you are able to examine the new holders. I have no issue ordering betterscan holders, but not if Epson have made that unnecessary.
I am using a 6x4.5 at the moment and have been researching a scanning solution. For 35mm I have used a Plustek 8100 (I only scan B/W) so needed a second solution.
The V850 is now on the market in the UK with the "improved" holders. Whilst I understand the scanner will perform much as the V750, with the new light source being a variable, I would appreciate your views when you are able to examine the new holders. I have no issue ordering betterscan holders, but not if Epson have made that unnecessary.
Fernando2
Well-known
Yes, well on the plus side, the new holders have more steps for height adjustment (5 vs 3) and look sturdier/more rigid.
I don't know if/when I'll be able to test a v8x0.
Many times I asked Epson, Plustek and Reflecta to loan me scanners for testing. Guess what? Not a chance.
Fernando
I don't know if/when I'll be able to test a v8x0.
Many times I asked Epson, Plustek and Reflecta to loan me scanners for testing. Guess what? Not a chance.
Fernando
Lancelot365
Member
I carefully compare my GT-X980(V850 equiv) with Plustek OF 120 and Nikon 8000ED at 4000 dpi (scanned at max resolution and then downsized) with no sharpening. The difference is visible but only at the pixel level. For A3+ prints, there is no difference unless I put my nose on the prints.
Oddly though I used to consider my V700 with betterscanning holder and ANR glasses very soft even at 2400 dpi, so i bought 8000ed and OF120. Now I believe V850 is in the same league with them. Could epson have done something amazing or I just got a bad or good copy?
The film holders of V850 are definitely better than V700's. They keep the film very flat with the new ANR plastic plate. Well done Epson!
Oddly though I used to consider my V700 with betterscanning holder and ANR glasses very soft even at 2400 dpi, so i bought 8000ed and OF120. Now I believe V850 is in the same league with them. Could epson have done something amazing or I just got a bad or good copy?
The film holders of V850 are definitely better than V700's. They keep the film very flat with the new ANR plastic plate. Well done Epson!
brbo
Well-known
Can you show us samples from each scanner? I believe many would appreciate them.
Thank you!
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
Have you used the fluid mounting yet on the V850? I understand it is not included in the box, UK, but can be requested. When my box arrives I will know!!
Fernando2
Well-known
A3+ from 645 means 8.5x.
My V700 with calibrated Betterscanning holders holds its ground at that magnification.
100% crop against Microtek 120TF (a very sharp 4000ppi dedicated filmscanner). V700 on the right:
Complete scene to have a reference:
My V700 with calibrated Betterscanning holders holds its ground at that magnification.
100% crop against Microtek 120TF (a very sharp 4000ppi dedicated filmscanner). V700 on the right:
Complete scene to have a reference:
Lancelot365
Member
I am not a fan of fluid mounting. Maybe it can pull out extra 5% sharpness, but the cost is high (labor and the fluid). I rather buy a high-end scanner if I need the extra sharpness.
Besides, I got the gt-x980 from japan. It is very cheap compared to V850 (like 40% cheaper) so I guess there is no free fluid mount accessory.
Lancelot365
Member
Here you are
First, V850 VS Plustek OF120. The film was 6X6 Ektar 100 taken by Rolleiflex 2.8E2 Xenotar at around F5.6 . I scanned the film at 6400dpi and 5300dpi for V850 and OF120 respectively, then down size to 10000X10000. Here are 100% crop. No sharpening.
OF120
V850
To my eyes, the v850's result seems to be a bit sharper...at least they are very similar.
Next, V850 VS Nikon 8000ED. The film was 6X6 Portra 400 taken by Rolleiflex 3.5F Planar 6 elements at around F4-5.6 . I scanned the film at 6400dpi and 4000dpi for V850 and 8000ED respectively, then down size to 8000X8000 Here are 100% crop. No sharpening.
8000ED
V850
8000ED is definitely sharper than V850, but I believe the difference is small.
I will scan some xpan films and compared them with Nikon VED next time
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
I went for the 850 because:
UK pounds
850 £611
800 £465 (no where near 40% difference)
(750 £596)
I get a free, on application, (just sent the e-mail), fluid mount, selling price £95, two sets of holders, x-rite calibration software with two calibration targets: Monaco systems transparency and reflective all of which the 800 lacks.
I agree that the fluid mounting is probably not only expensive and time consuming for little gain, but we shall see, a toy is a toy!!
Lancelot365
Member
I went for the 850 because:
UK pounds
850 £611
800 £465 (no where near 40% difference)
(750 £596)
I get a free, on application, (just sent the e-mail), fluid mount, selling price £95, two sets of holders, x-rite calibration software with two calibration targets: Monaco systems transparency and reflective all of which the 800 lacks.
I agree that the fluid mounting is probably not only expensive and time consuming for little gain, but we shall see, a toy is a toy!!
gt-x980 is basically the same as V850, but only comes with one set of holder. The price from japan is just around USD 550, quite a bargain.
brbo
Well-known
Thanks! Epson does indeed look more than just decent (sharpness wise) when compared to Plustek 120. Especially when you consider the price.