Eric Kim and a disconnect?

[stompyq]

If you are street photographer who is known for street photography and not for seminars on street photography, it means, you spend a lot of time on the street. Not on money making seminars.

Winogrand "I'm surviving". Even he has to teach. To have some money...

I think, street photography seminar by Eric brings more than street photography. And this is why it is worth of paying. Many street photographers, but only few good instructors on street photography who like Eric understands what where are lot more involved on human nature at both sides (taker and taken), much more comparing to flowers, veggie photography.

I don't understand how "street photography" can be taught. I mean you pick up a camera go to the street and photograph whatever it is that's interesting. There are no technical aspects to it other than knowing basic camera function. What does he actually teach? Composition?

 

[jsrockit]

envy, and no surprise it's rearing it's garbage head here too.

I'm not so sure it is always envy. If his work isn't to people's taste and it's great... then it is maybe people don't get it or are envious of success. However, if the work wasn't great when he began his workshops, that could be a good reason why people disliked him.

That said, there are plenty of great (and well known) photographers that people will dismiss on this site.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

OK, since OP is keep on pushing Eric as photographer here, I revisited to see if he become one.
And Eric as good businessman has ready answer for this kind of requests.
http://erickimphotography.com/blog/2017/09/06/my-evolution-as-a-photographer/

Where is obviously something growing in him, in terms of photography. So, I don't really know at all anymore why some dirty talks about him still.

He even has free plug-ins for LR. 0$! 🙂

 

[wjlapier]

Is this guy famous? I used to own his M9--a nice black paint one. Maybe I should have kept it.

 

[Mjd-djm]

Is this guy famous? I used to own his M9--a nice black paint one. Maybe I should have kept it.

Not a good investment. The fact that he owned it has got to cause premature depreciation!

 

[wjlapier]

Not a good investment. The fact that he owned it has got to cause premature depreciation!

You guys are too much! 🙂

 

[Ko.Fe.]

I don't understand how "street photography" can be thought. I mean you pick up a camera go to the street and photograph whatever it is thats interesting. There are no technical aspects to it other than knowing basic camera function. What does he actually teach? Composition?

It depends on personal determinations on that is interesting. Winogrand was special teacher to change students mind on that is interesting.
And Winogrand was showing on the street how to plow for the street photography. The non-suspicions, non-intrusive street photography is photography of shadows and blurs combined with street elements and architecture. I don't know if Eric is teaching it now, but years ago then I checked what he was doing, it was not about it. It was about what makes good street, candid photography for many of us. It is about people been close. Teaching how to get close to people and actually helping with getting close to people isn't much about photography. But it is worth of paying for it to become better street photographer. IMO.

It is like dancing. Teaching dancing is one part, helping to start dancing naked on the table is another part. Good street photographer is act of dancing naked on the table in the public place.

 

[PKR]

As I've found, over recent years, anyone who has a camera or iPhone, is a "photographer". If you carry this a step further, anyone who has uploaded a photo to social media, is a "published photographer". Things have changed..

I was taught, by an experienced credentialed scientist, to ignore any title or letters written/published before or after a name, until they are vetted.

As those who change their job titles, gender, interweb achievements at will, we must agree, or be thought Neanderthal.

Edit: I forgot one.. anyone who has been paid money for a photograph, is a "professional photographer". I think that covers them all. For those in the mid/south west US, anyone who dresses like cowboy, is a cowboy.

I learned this as a youngster in school: "I see by your outfit, that you are a Cowboy. You see by my outfit, that I am one too. We see by our outfits that we are both Cowboys, if you get an outfit, you can be a Cowboy too". written by Dave Guard, I think.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Indeed. Perhaps this post is even my point. The fellow seems to be doing all right. I think his recent work is pretty good, all things considered.

The conversation came up as I was sitting in a cafe listening to some curmudgeonly photographers go on about him in a very negative fashion. To shorten a long and boring conversation, 'fraud' will suffice. Therein lies the disconnect for me. The guy is producing and showing work, running workshops and travelling the world doing this photography thing. What's fraudulent about that?

Well, quite. Then again, pornographers can earn a living from pornographic photography. We all make moral/ intellectual/ aesthetic judgements about others.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Archlich]

IMO the kind of "street" under his lens are kitsch you'd see everywhere - take a happy short walk (during which your are instructed to behave suspiciously) and you can make hundreds of these monochrome, generalized pictures from the hip. And he makes a living marketing the kitsch. Funny thing is he (being one of "them") often quote Winogrand's bold words but never read photography like Winogrand (or more precisely, Szarkowski) did...the ones that go beyond "street" and into our times...nor do they share the hunger. Too big a commitment for the discriminating weekend photographers who are Kim's primary source of revenue perharps. Thus hardly could they produce a photo that can withstand a reading.

(Maybe it's just me, but I also dislike the name "Streetpan", which reeks of a similar smell. Feed your Analogue™ Leica™ Rangefinder™ with Streetpan™, go into the Streets™ and do Street Photography™. In Black & White™. Heartfully prefabricated, just add water. How convenient.)

Of course he's an honest man doing his business, but it's like selling alcohol-free vodkas...safe, tasteless, and no spirit at all.

 

[jsrockit]

The kind of "street" under his lens are kitsch you'd see everywhere - take a happy short walk (during which your are instructed to behave suspiciously) and you can make hundreds of these monochrome, generalized pictures from the hip. And he makes a living marketing the kitsch. Funny thing is he (being one of "them") often quote Winogrand's bold words but never read photography like Winogrand (or more precisely, Szarkowski) did...the ones that go beyond "street" and into our times...nor do they share the hunger. Too big a commitment for the discriminating weekend photographers who are Kim's primary source of revenue perharps. Thus hardly could they produce a photo that worth a reading.

Let me guess, street photography like his is so easy, but you don't do street photography because you are above it.

 

[dmr]

How many so-called street photographers can truly make a living like this?

What you do is set up a web site and sell a course on how you can make $100000 a year as a street photographer!

 

[aizan]

The conversation came up as I was sitting in a cafe listening to some curmudgeonly photographers go on about him in a very negative fashion. To shorten a long and boring conversation, 'fraud' will suffice. Therein lies the disconnect for me. The guy is producing and showing work, running workshops and travelling the world doing this photography thing. What's fraudulent about that?

It's the lack of credentials. He's using his earnings to get them, though. For example, a while back he took a much more expensive Magnum workshop with Costa Manos.

I'd say there are three things he can do to get real street cred, but none of which he needs to keep making money:

1) work as a photojournalist.
2) at least get into a group show at a reputable gallery, e.g., International Center of photography (NYC), Annenberg Space for Photography (LA), maybe even Rat Hole (Tokyo).
3) have a photobook published by the likes of Steidl, Scalo, Aperture, Nazraeli, etc.

He's carved out the financial means to do it, so I'm guessing it's just a matter of time before he works his way out of the company of guys like Steve Huff and Thorsten Overgaard. I think he has his heart in the right place, so he's got that going for him.

 

[Archlich]

Let me guess, street photography like his is so easy, but you don't do street photography because you are above it.

I (and I believe I'm not alone in this case) constantly take pictures in streets (and elsewhere), used to reply "street works" when being asked what kind of photography I did, and gradually found myself not trendy enough for the title Street Photographer™. Then I learnt to ditch the Street™ thing altogether and be free.

I don't know I'm above or below anything, as most of these words sound like false concepts.

And yes, it was quite easy, and fun at first when you get a shot that looks like one from the masters.

 

[jsrockit]

I'd say there are three things he can do to get real street cred, but none of which he needs to keep making money:

1) work as a photojournalist.
2) at least get into a group show at a reputable gallery, e.g., International Center of photography (NYC), Annenberg Space for Photography (LA), maybe even Rat Hole (Tokyo).
3) have a photobook published by the likes of Steidl, Scalo, Aperture, Nazraeli, etc.

Yeah, and that is all so easy to do... it takes a long time of developing your craft to get those things and then it is still likely not to happen. Not to mentioned there is wide range of photojournalists out there and most don't have any "street cred."

 

[jsrockit]

Quite easy, indeed. Anyone who had watched a Winogrand video can do that, not to mention if you've watched a Bruce Gilden one.

Come on, his work is a lot better than most of the amateur street stuff I see around... i.e. people's backs, no composition, etc. At least he's trying. If it was as easy as watching a video and going to do it, we'd see a lot more of his style of photos than the random backs of people with hasty framing throw in. I'm not sticking up for him because his work is derivative. But I do feel it is better than a lot of other amateurs crap.

I (and I believe I'm not alone in this case) take pictures in streets (and elsewhere), used to reply "street works" when being asked what kind of photography I did, and gradually found myself not trendy enough for the title Street Photographer™.

Yeah, I understand you here... I feel the same way. I honestly stopped caring about being a street photographer. I just go out and photograph trying to get better and find my own style. I may never succeed but it is fun trying.

 

[gavinlg]

His blog is one of the few photography specific sites I actually choose to read fairly regularly. Not a fan of his new-found rapping an poetry sensibilities, but his current works are great and his breakdowns/musings of photography related material can be really fascinating.

 

[aizan]

Yeah, and that is all so easy to do... it takes a long time of developing your craft to get those things and then it is still likely not to happen. Not to mentioned there is wide range of photojournalists out there and most don't have any "street cred."

It's more difficult to get credibility in street photography than, say, fashion photography. You don't need to be Steven Meisel to teach a workshop (not that he'd ever have to!), though you do have to be David Alan Harvey.

Photojournalists are busy chasing stories and and following the news, so it's up to the old fogeys and professional hustlers/amateur photographers to fill the growing demand for them.

Are there any younger photojournalists who teach street photography workshops?

 

[MCTuomey]

there's nothing novel in his business model relative to seminars, especially the luxe variety. fly fishermen conduct seminars on trout streams, often in exclusive locations, for well-heeled types who buy in to the concept of fast-tracking streamcraft. young players and older wannabes go to sports camps conducted by variously credentialed former and current athletes. real estate, modeling, commodity trading ... list could go on and on.

google "street photography" and kim pops up in top three. that's cred enough for selling seminars, as i doubt his attendees would look to whether his work is published or curated. he's upfront about what he's doing, plenty of chutzpah, not a bad gig and he can still work on his skills and portfolio.

i prefer the approach of olivier duong, for my educational dollar.

 

[BlackXList]

Several years ago myself and Eric briefly interacted through twitter, he was a a very genuine and positive guy, and based solely on my work made sure to shout me out several times on his twitter, nothing in it for him, just helping out.

I don't agree with absolutely everything he says, but that's the same with everyone.

He's found a way to make his living from the areas around photography, and I salute him for it, he's not bringing negativity or pseudoscience like some do, so good luck to him.