Erwin on Leicas future

Whoa. Doom and gloom.

But I have mine, and I'm confident B&W film will be available for my lifetime. I may have to buy it at an art supply store, but the medium will exist.
 
Cold hard fact:

"The latest move at PMA to ask attention for two lenses that are in production for several years is a weak marketing move. It may indicate Leica’s desperation for attention in the market."
 
veraikon said:
There is an article by the well know Leica defender Erwin Puts
http://www.imx.nl/photo/viewpoint/the_question_no_one_dares_t.html
about Leicas future .

The Handelsblatt (German journal for economic affairs) article that is mentioned in, is called “"Der leidenschaftliche Leica-Liebhaber"
http://www.handelsblatt.com/News/Ka...px/der-leidenschaftliche-leica-liebhaber.html
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When I was at my local shop a couple of days ago, the owner told me that he is trying to sell out his Leica stock because nothing is moving off the shelves. Sales of MP/M7 and M8 are dead. He suggested he would offer an "incentive" toward the sale of Leica M products.

This seems to confirm Puts's analysis at the local level. Very disheartening.

Harry
 
How can you even adress Leica's operational success (or lack thereof)
without considering Leica's pricing policy ?

CV and Zeiss demonstrate that RFs are not dead. The problem is somewhere
else (if there is one).
 
I think there are plenty of new Leica users -- young photographers love them -- but they are buying used Leicas. Until they start making more retired dentists and lawyers, their aren't going to be many new customers who will buy new Leicas.

If I want to use 35mm there's a huge supply of used Leicas to buy, and it would be hard for them to further improve on the film camera design... so...
 
sitemistic said:
I think he has nailed it. Rangefinder cameras are at the end of a long run. Leica has no future producing them.

It is always refreshing to me when even an advocate can see the world as it really is, not as he wants or imagines it to be.
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I have to agree, but that still won't keep me from enjoying the RFs that I now have. Sad really but all things have a finite life.

Bob
 
Firing Mr. Lee isn't going to change anything.

It's a tough market out there, they are competing against far larger companies with immense technical advantages, and their number one market has a currency valuation problem.

I don't think RF is dead by any means; that said, the manufacturing cost of the products needs to be severely reduced, so they can be sold at reasonable prices.

Is this possible? Perhaps not.

As I said in another thread, Nikon needs to buy Leica. But, this would have to be more than just a sentimental purchase. What does Leica have that anyone else needs? Perhaps some optical technology? But if it's optical technology that can't be manufactured at price where the technology will sell, is there any value at all?
 
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digitalintrigue said:
Or, the Leica RF is at the end at the prices they currently are trying to sell them.
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Indeed, I completely disagree with him on the 'RF concept' being dead - I'm 28, I started thinking about my photo snapping two years ago and came to RFs anything else. Looking at forum users there are teenagers coming to RFs now.

However, the 'Leica RF' I can see going, there are so many old bodies in circulation that you can pick up an M6 for 1/3 the price of an MP/M7. They're [m7/m8] not unaffordable, but the difference in feel vs. price is hard to justify for many (including me).

If they are, I hope Leica stops listening to the photo geeks and taps into the the 'cachet' of their name, making _the_ most expensive cameras for rich people to wear as 'bling', perhaps a heavy, brass bodied, well finished AF digital compact the shape and size of a barnack?. Then, hopefully, they could keep the M-series alive as a side business.
 
I have mine, I love using them,most of my better pics were/are shot on them and they will still be useable long after my demise so Who gives a shxt.
 
sitemistic said:
emraphoto, that line does not reflect the thrust of what he was saying. I took it as an acknowledgement that accomplishing the task of convincing new users that rangefinders are cool and superior is something of a lost cause.
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emraphoto has a point though. How many people have I shown my measly film rangefinders to, who are dslr users (I'm also a dslr user btw), and explained when where and why I like to use them, and had them sold on the concept ? They were asking, is there a digital one ? Keep in mind, these are people that use Rebels and D40's. They have the interest (but not in the price, thats for sure).
 
I hesitate to comment on yet another negative thread. I mean, jeez, why are WE of all people constantly beating the drum of the death of all things rangefinder and film? Hey, look up in the sky, is that a star or really a huge asteroid hurling towards an apocalypse on earth? But seriously, I find it mysterious to talk about the demise of Leica when they insist on pricing their product way out of the realm of users like myself. It's like complaining that toasters are obsolete because no one wants to buy premium toasters for $999. Unless the Leica allure is purely socio-economic, like a Jaguar car (face it, nobody buys a Jag 'cause it's a great car), I would think some improved pricing would help sales.
 
Leica has to go completely digital, and keep improving the product, so that customers have incentive to buy new models. That's the way all the other camera makers have to do it, to guarantee continuing cash flow. Gotta get on the product development treadmill. If that treadmill stops, well, I don't need to say more.

The RF is not dead by any means. There are millions of cameras being sold every year that have optical viewfinders. None of them are manual focus, and none of them sell for $3695.

For Leica to survive they have to update the RF to something modern (i.e. imagine a digital RF with Live View and autofocus) but I'm not sure they have the engineering ability or enough money to make it happen. That requires a huge investment, they'd have to redesign all their lenses, not just the bodies.

And at the same time, they'd have to cut manufacturing costs drastically. I'm not sure this can be done by Leica alone, they need to be acquired by a company that has enough muscle.
 
I think he's absolutely right. Leica can survive if they make interesting, innovative cameras that people want to buy, but they won't be rangefinders, they need to be something new. In a perfect world, they would continue to produce small numbers of M rangefinders and lenses (mainly to keep me happy:eek:) alongside whatever product it is that restores their fortunes but they will not re-establish themselves by making manual focus rangefinder cameras, digital or analogue.
 
Well put, Fred.

The question is, does Leica have the technical ability and the load of cash necessary to modernize the RF concept. And manufacture it so it's an $1800 D300 alternative, not $5500.
 
sitemistic said:
nextreme, anecdotes aside, they may have the interest, but they aren't buying them.

Everyone that sees my restored 1969 Mach 1 Mustang says, "Man, I'd like to have one of those." But when it's time to buy a new car, they buy a new SUV.
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True. But what I'm saying is, the people are unaware that Ford have an updated Mustang thats available (that has the styling of the 1969 model) but with modern amenities.

Fact of the matter is, I can agree with some of what the article says. Where it goes wrong is, comparing an RF with a dslr. Two different beasts. I have both (but not a Leica). I use them at different times.
Can I compare your Mustang to a 1969 VW Beetle ? Both are cars. Both are tools to get you from point A to point B. I bet you can agree, they each have their place in your transportation arsenal.
 
user toaster

user toaster

sooner said:
....It's like complaining that toasters are obsolete because no one wants to buy premium toasters for $999.... .
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ROFL - my wife scored a 4 slot Dualit toaster slightly dented for $69 some years ago in a Williams Sonoma outlet - you can call that a user :D . New it's something like $400.
 
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