Estar Based B&W Film

[filmtwit]

So I picked up an Alden 200' film loader that turned out to have a roll of film in it. I'm having trouble identifying it though. It has a gray emulsion and no black backing, the base is estar and not triacetate. The film also looks to have KS perforations.

Emulsion Side.

Base side

The estar base and KS perforations would seem to indicate that this is a print film motion picture film stock. KS perforations would rule out IP, IN, Dupe Neg and Finegrain motion picture stocks (at least Kodak motion picture film stock). I'm not aware of estar having been used in any still films either, so I'm back to thinking this is motion picture film stock. It's been a while since I've been around motion picture film stock (I once worked in 2 different motion picture film labs back in LA, but it's been 8 years since I've been around this type of stock).

Other then trying to develop it and seeing the edge codes, any idea what this might be? It looks like B&W emulsion to me, but I could be wrong.

 

[Roger Hicks]

So I picked up an Alden 200' film loader that turned out to have a roll of film in it. I'm having trouble identifying it though. It has a gray emulsion and no black backing, the base is estar and not triacetate. The film also looks to have KS perforations.
The estar base and KS perforations would seem to indicate that this is a print film motion picture film stock. KS perforations would rule out IP, IN, Dupe Neg and Finegrain motion picture stocks (at least Kodak motion picture film stock). I'm not aware of estar having been used in any still films either, so I'm back to thinking this is motion picture film stock. It's been a while since I've been around motion picture film stock (I once worked in 2 different motion picture film labs back in LA, but it's been 8 years since I've been around this type of stock).

Other then trying to develop it and seeing the edge codes, any idea what this might be? It looks like B&W emulsion to me, but I could be wrong.

Polyester bases (Estar is a Kodak trademark): Traffic control and surveillance films, and some Maco/Rollei products.

Cheers,

R.

 

[MartinP]

You could snip off a bit of film from the holder in darkness (ie. from inside the holder and not darkened by light) then develop and fix it to check for the edge-printing which typically includes the name or code. Try using whatever the time is for Tri-X in your developer as that's a sort of middle of the road time that will give a (sub-optimal) result, even if it's C41 film.

And those perforations look rather square-ish to be the barrel-shaped cine-film type ? I'm only going on what I saw while shooting cine-film in a still camera when I was an impoverished student several decades ago, so that could be wrong.

 

[sevo]

The estar base and KS perforations would seem to indicate that this is a print film motion picture film stock. KS perforations would rule out IP, IN, Dupe Neg and Finegrain motion picture stocks (at least Kodak motion picture film stock). I'm not aware of estar having been used in any still films either

Oh, there were quite a few. Ilford HP5-72, most notably, the first Polyester base film directly marketed towards consumers. Besides that Kodak Technical Pan and a variety of "SO-xxx" labelled Kodak technical films. Plus many surveillance and aero films - currently several made by Agfa Gevaert are being marketed in 135 cartridge as Maco and Rollei.

Besides, the Kodak/Bell division among perforations for positive/negative does not hold up outside US and German made 35mm motion picture cameras - for just about every purpose apart from that, KS is standard. Even Kodak motion picture negative stock can (or at least could) be ordered in both N and P perforation.

 

[filmtwit]

Cine-film- Negatives and duplicating films use the rounded B&H style perfs as the registration needle in a cine-camera is shaped to it. Print film (what you see in the theater) on the other hand uses KS perfs.

More in film perforations at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_perforations

Damn, was hoping to get around having to develop the film to see the etch coding.


Thanks folks.

And those perforations look rather square-ish to be the barrel-shaped cine-film type ? I'm only going on what I saw while shooting cine-film in a still camera when I was an impoverished student several decades ago, so that could be wrong.

 

[filmtwit]

We used to use this making title overlays when I worked in a film lab as it was super contrasty. I think I ran test once for using it as a still film, the ASA was around 6. Don't quote me here, but I think we also used it for the release print on The Red Dwarf back in 1998.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0156820/

Kodak 2475 Recording Film was/is on an Estar AH base, as also was the higher speed 2484.

Don't try tearing it by hand.

 

[filmtwit]

So that magical mystery estar based film ended up being . . .

kodak TMX 5052, better known as Kodak Tmax 100 Professional.

 

[sevo]

Strange. As far as I can make out, a ESTAR base 35mm TMX 100 was never on the Kodak photographic catalogue.

 

[besk]

Wow, I wish I could buy it. Or TMX 400 even better!

 

[filmtwit]

A little google searching and it looks like we're talking about two different film stocks. The stuff we played with was Kodak 2374 for use as motion picture sound tack negative.

Besk - I think what I have is maybe 20-30' long at this point. It might also have some edge fogging too.

Sevo - Ya, I've been reading some of Kodak's tech info and can't that they ever released this film on estar. Might have been a special order.

Kodak 2475 Recording Film actually had a box ASA rating of 1600 and was known for extremely coarse grain, often it was pushed a stop or two and the grain deliberately abused to enhance the texture. The other film mentioned, 2484 had an even faster speed rating. 2475 could be had in 36ex rolls and 100' rolls, 2484 could only be had as 100' rolls, if my memory holds true.

It was called Recording Film because its original intended use was for surveillance cameras in the pre-video era.

As I recall, the Estar AH base was unusually curly and defied flattening.

 

[Rob-F]

So that magical mystery estar based film ended up being . . .

kodak TMX 5052, better known as Kodak Tmax 100 Professional.

I'm beginning to wonder if it's really Estar. I seem to recall that Estar was a clear base. The film in the picture looks like it has has significant density.

 

[filmtwit]

I can tell you that it doesn't rip (it bends, warps and stretches) and has to be cut. These are all the tell tale signs of estar.

Here's a long discussion on Estar vs Acetate
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/59655-cellulose-acetate-vs-polyester-film-base.html

I'm beginning to wonder if it's really Estar. I seem to recall that Estar was a clear base. The film in the picture looks like it has has significant density.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Kodak 2475 Recording Film actually had a box ASA rating of 1600 and was known for extremely coarse grain, often it was pushed a stop or two and the grain deliberately abused to enhance the texture. The other film mentioned, 2484 had an even faster speed rating. 2475 could be had in 36ex rolls and 100' rolls, 2484 could only be had as 100' rolls, if my memory holds true.

It was called Recording Film because its original intended use was for surveillance cameras in the pre-video era.

As I recall, the Estar AH base was unusually curly and defied flattening.

Yep, the things I remember about 2475 recording film was the permanent curl that defied flattening. That seemed to be a trademark of the "Estar AH, dimensionally stable" base. Yes it was grainy but I liked it.

I seem to remember the box having a listed ASA of 1000 but no one ever metered it. I just shot it wide open at the slowest shutter speed I could hold, developed it as much as I could and utilized whatever zones came out on the neg.

 

[sevo]

I'm beginning to wonder if it's really Estar. I seem to recall that Estar was a clear base. The film in the picture looks like it has has significant density.

The Estar black and while films I have used mostly had a grey antihalation base - Estar AH.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

Hello all.

Reviving this old thread as it's the only one I could find.

I was given a few rolls of Kodak 2374 and was told it was ISO/ASA 200 but wasn't offered any other details.

How do you develop this? I normally use Rodinal/Adonal for developing and film wise, I shoot Fomapan 400 and Double X and push to 1600. So yeah, I like contrast and I like grain and I don't mind things being a bit on the blown/blocked end. Nice to avoid it so it can be tamed but this is free film that I am going to stick into a point and shoot and just have some summer fun 🙂

All advice is welcome.

Guy.

 

[DominikDUK]

Rodinal 1:100 stand should do the trick it will somewhat tame the very high contrast. This is not a print film it is a sound recording film, same family different contrast.

 

[Guy Pinhas]

Rodinal 1:100 stand should do the trick it will somewhat tame the very high contrast. This is not a print film it is a sound recording film, same family different contrast.

Thanks DominikDUK. You think it would be okay to develop it alongside other film? In the same can as Fomapan? Do I make sense?