Ethol LPD, the misunderstood chemical

[PetPhoto]

Ethol LPD is about as vitriolic as the old sally mann debate, or the mortensen versus adams debates that wage along the forums on a near yearly rotation schedule.

Ethol LPD is long bemoaned as no longer being sold, in powder form. Powder form was easy for most users to use. Pour the can of powder into a big bucket, pour in X gallons of water, stir stir stir. Decant into smaller glass containers. Fun will ensue..

But they got rid of the powder and gave us a liqoud. In two sizes, gallon and quart. Quart now discontinued.

The animosity to the liqoud is well known on some boards. People are angry with it because "it isnt the same". But the thing is, MOST of the problems discussed are caused by the people refusing to admit that the liqoud in the gallon jug, is the result of mixing 1 can of powder with X gallons of water..

And for the life of me, I have only ever gotten pure hatreds when i mention that poor fact in forum threads were the "woe is me, i cant ethol LPD to work now". And its baffling. Are people who claim to use the old powder in a can for 20 years, just not that capable of reading the new labelling? Or is it a deliberate act on their part to create some sort of feed back to "inspire" the powder in a can to be sold again?

 

[Freakscene]

LPD is fine. It’s a commercial version of one of Defender’s formulae. People want ‘magic’ - in ‘thick’ film emulsions, ‘silver rich’ papers, chemistry that ‘separates tones’ and provides ‘deep blacks’ etc etc etc. Whereas in reality learning good craft with commonly available quality materials is the way to go. All the darkroom voodoo is just that.

 

[PetPhoto]

I started out with Eco Pro and arista film and paper. I wasted several years on that. Still have not unlearned some of the things i had to do to make those things work.

I had ethol lpd in a quart bottle. And the results were superior to anything eco pro did. and easier too. But i stopped printing for 2 years and well, my bottle went bad. yet the mixed and unused dilutions in the glass bottles never changed in smell or appearance.

 

[Freakscene]

I started out with Eco Pro and arista film and paper. I wasted several years on that. Still have not unlearned some of the things i had to do to make those things work.

I had ethol lpd in a quart bottle. And the results were superior to anything eco pro did. and easier too. But i stopped printing for 2 years and well, my bottle went bad. yet the mixed and unused dilutions in the glass bottles never changed in smell or appearance.

There is phenidone or an analogue (phenidone-b, dimezone, whatever) in LPD, but as always for that developing agent, at low concentration. Once it oxidises, and that will happen first among the agents in LPD, there is no superadditive development and the developer dies. There is enough preservative that the hydroquinone is unlikely to oxidise, so there will be no colour change.

 

[titrisol]

The powder LPD was a great developer, you could do lots of interesting things with it and even provided effects during toning
I havent tried the liquid

 

[PetPhoto]

It does things the eco pro couldnt do.. i had a negative i liked in eco pro . but when i ran it through LPD, i actually had TEXTURE on the leaves, and the best way to describe it, "that picture of a velvet shirt actually LOOKS like its velvet,, i can see the texture and almost feel it"

 

[titrisol]

It does things the eco pro couldnt do.. i had a negative i liked in eco pro . but when i ran it through LPD, i actually had TEXTURE on the leaves, and the best way to describe it, "that picture of a velvet shirt actually LOOKS like its velvet,, i can see the texture and almost feel it"

I loved the effects you could get in post-processing
For Ilford warmtone, you could dilute LPD 1+20 or so and the tones were a lot warmer.
I tried it also in Ilford multigrade (normal) using the same method and got a gorgeous aubergine tone in selenium compared to the normal tone it used to get

 

[Freakscene]

I loved the effects you could get in post-processing
For Ilford warmtone, you could dilute LPD 1+20 or so and the tones were a lot warmer.
I tried it also in Ilford multigrade (normal) using the same method and got a gorgeous aubergine tone in selenium compared to the normal tone it used to get

The silver grain size varies with developer. The colour comes from an interaction of grain size and toner. You can do some interesting things with different developers.

There was a Luminos paper sold as Fotospeed The Classic FB in Australia and the UK that went this beautiful dusky blush pink colour when toned in polysulfide followed by gold. It was very popular for portraits of girls in the 1990s.

 

[Freakscene]

P-72 is equivalent to ethol lpd - you can add more phenidone up to a point, but this works pretty well.

To make 4 liters of stock solution use:

3L of distilled water 50C - 125F
180g Sodium Sulfite
50g Hydroquinone
270g Sodium Carbonate (anhydrous)
2g Phenidone
7.5g Potassium Bromide
1g Benzotriazole

Add water to make 4 liters.

Start with 3L of H2O. Add the chemicals in the order listed, dissolving each chemical fully before adding the next.

You can make a solution of Phenidone in isopropyl alcohol, ethanol or methanol to help dissolve the Phenidone more easily and to make measuring and adding 2g to the solution more accurate. You can dissolve about 10g of phenidone in 100mL of ethanol, but the stock solution of Phenidone in isopropyl will not last long before the phenidone oxidises, so there is no need to mix a large volume.

 

[titrisol]

You can make a solution of Phenidone in isopropyl alcohol, ethanol or methanol to help dissolve the Phenidone more easily and to make measuring and adding 2g to the solution more accurate. You can dissolve about 10g of phenidone in 100mL of ethanol, but the stock solution of Phenidone in isopropyl will not last long before the phenidone oxidises, so there is no need to mix a large volume.

YOu can use glycerin or propylene glycol and Phenidone will last for a long time (gadget Gainer's recipe)

 

[Freakscene]

YOu can use glycerin or propylene glycol and Phenidone will last for a long time (gadget Gainer's recipe)

Yes, indeed. But when it dies, it still does so quickly, so be careful.

And dissolving phenidone in glycol is a lot more work than putting 10g in 100ml of ethanol, turning on the magnetic stirrer, and coming back 15 min later.

 

[titrisol]

Yes, indeed. But when it dies, it still does so quickly, so be careful.

And dissolving phenidone in glycol is a lot more work than putting 10g in 100ml of ethanol, turning on the magnetic stirrer, and coming back 15 min later.

Last time I tried it lasted over 12 months (I ran out before any more tries)

 

[Freakscene]

Last time I tried it lasted over 12 months (I ran out before any more tries)

That is worthy of the Leica service department. Wow.

 

[titrisol]

100 ml of Prop glycol heated in the MW to ~60C and then added 2.5g of phenidone it dissolved easily (Gadget recommended not going over that %)

 

[PRJ]

I use glycol for phenidone. Glass bottle, butane spritz. Last a long time that way. I usually mix it at 2%.

You can substitute Dimezone-S for phenidone. Supposed to last longer in solution if that is of concern to you.

I haven't used LPD since the 90s but I remember liking it. Seems like it is just way overpriced these days but everything else seems overpriced too....

 

[PetPhoto]

I use glycol for phenidone. Glass bottle, butane spritz. Last a long time that way. I usually mix it at 2%.

You can substitute Dimezone-S for phenidone. Supposed to last longer in solution if that is of concern to you.

I haven't used LPD since the 90s but I remember liking it. Seems like it is just way overpriced these days but everything else seems overpriced too....

if its overpriced, its available. Its its "reasonably priced", it seems to be out of stock, or discontinued item.

 

[Freakscene]

I use glycol for phenidone. Glass bottle, butane spritz. Last a long time that way. I usually mix it at 2%.

You can substitute Dimezone-S for phenidone. Supposed to last longer in solution if that is of concern to you.

I haven't used LPD since the 90s but I remember liking it. Seems like it is just way overpriced these days but everything else seems overpriced too....

Yes, dimezone or dimezone-s will work. They oxidise less in highly alkaline solutions. In alcohol they oxidise at about the same rate.

The P-72 is similar to LPD.