Everyone is taking photos... But then what's wrong with that?

[Pickett Wilson]

Well, I'm a PJ, and it's a practical matter for me.

Back in the day there were only a couple of PJ's roaming a high school football sideline shooting photos for the newspaper. Now, there are 20 moms with their Canon XTi and an 18-55mm lens banging into me and getting in front of me (actually out on the field!) to get blurry, so tiny they are unrecognizable snaps of their kids on the team, while making it really a pain for me to get shots for the newspaper.

I think that's the real gripe most pros have against amateurs in these situations. A scrum of soccer moms with cameras is a scary thing indeed.

 

[_larky]

I think we have simply entered the second phase of popular photography. My parents generation were in the first one, with film of course. Then that got costly, crap digital came out, and everyone slowed down apart from the hobbyist.

Then technology caught up with the stored demand, and it exploded. That is where we are now. Simply the same as it was before the lull.

And I don't care, 1 great photo stands out amongst a million rubbish ones. Though who is to say what is good and vice versa? Certainly not me. At least not publicly.

 

[_larky]

Well, I'm a PJ, and it's a practical matter for me.

Back in the day there were only a couple of PJ's roaming a high school football sideline shooting photos for the newspaper. Now, there are 20 moms with their Canon XTi and an 18-55mm lens banging into me and getting in front of me (actually out on the field!) to get blurry, so tiny they are unrecognizable snaps of their kids on the team, while making it really a pain for me to get shots for the newspaper.

I think that's the real gripe most pros have against amateurs in these situations. A scrum of soccer moms with cameras is a scary thing indeed.

I had that 10 year ago when I did that for a job, but they wer using tiny P&S things instead of a cheap dSLR.

 

[haempe]

This is the point the "semi-famous" photog was likely trying to make. Turning it into to an "Us vs. Them rant" is really silly and a bit chippy imo. Everyone no matter what they do for a living has some complaint about their job. Amateurs making a pro's job more difficult whether it's photography, or the proliferation of the Bloggosphere watering down journalism.... is a valid complaint. But I think it is just a complaint. Not some sort of battle cry. In other words. The status of amateur photographers is safe from the semi-famous and famous pros of this world.

No, this is not a Us vs. Them rant, because for me it is equal if Pro's or amateurs stopping me doing my job. But the most Pro's (I learned to know) are not so ruthless as many amateurs.
YMMV.

 

[jsrockit]

So, is it is more important for the newspaper to get its photo than for the Mom to photograph their own kid? why? Because one is for money?

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Come on, jsrockit, it's a legitimate gripe from pros. Construction workers would have the same complaint if a bunch of amateurs showed up at the work site with Paslode nail guns and started getting in their way.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Who are these 'semi-famous photographers'? And how are they imposing their views on everyone else?

The latter is pure 'consent of the victim'. If someone is talking/writing nonsense, and you know it's nonsense, why would you believe it? And if there's a nugget of truth in what they're saying, where's the harm in thinking about it?

Like most journalists, I'll complain that people would rather have free crap than pay for mere competence, never mind excellence, but that's a separate issue.

Remember, too, that half the population is below average intelligence.

Cheers,

R.

 

[functus]

I suspect this may be at the heart of any resentment. In the not-too-distant past, if we wanted photographic reportage of an event, we would send a photographer. They would be paid for their efforts. Every once in a while a hobbyist photographer might also have lucked into having a camera with them while strolling past the event.

Now, we are guaranteed that whatever the event, wherever it occurs, somebody will be close enough with a cell phone camera, a point-and-shoot or even a DLSR to get a shot of it. Why pay to send a photographer to (say) Libya, when we are getting a constant stream of (perhaps not the greatest technical quality, but who cares) photographs available on the internet in real-time?

The end result is that the market for photographic reportage is shrinking. It won't disappear -- there will always be a place for a photographer with a unique vision to go somewhere and produce exceptional images -- but the need for photographers to go out and get on-the-spot reporting is going to disappear because of those 30 to 40 amateurs who will take less-interesting images, but who are willing to cough them up for free, and who are already likely to be on the scene.

Well, I'm a PJ, and it's a practical matter for me.

Back in the day there were only a couple of PJ's roaming a high school football sideline shooting photos for the newspaper. Now, there are 20 moms with their Canon XTi and an 18-55mm lens banging into me and getting in front of me (actually out on the field!) to get blurry, so tiny they are unrecognizable snaps of their kids on the team, while making it really a pain for me to get shots for the newspaper.

I think that's the real gripe most pros have against amateurs in these situations. A scrum of soccer moms with cameras is a scary thing indeed.

 

[jsrockit]

Come on, jsrockit, it's a legitimate gripe from pros. Construction workers would have the same complaint if a bunch of amateurs showed up at the work site with Paslode nail guns and started getting in their way.

Yeah, I know... if it was my job, I'd be right there with you getting pissed. However, you can't tell a mom to get out of the way, it just isn't worth it. The amateurs with nailguns scenario would be illegal though... (but funny).

 

[Pickett Wilson]

Yeah, seriously.

 

[Pickett Wilson]

A Black Star photographer did a story for Sports Illustrated on one of the teams I covered who had lost 127 straight games. He walked over to me and the first thing he asked, was, "Where are the other photographers?"

Just me and him. The team actually won the game he showed up for, too!

 

[bukaj]

I think the one thing the internet has done is given people more access. I think there are plenty of great, very talented photographers out there who never get noticed, and always have been. People who are just as skilled and talented as these pros we're talking about. In the days of film and pre-internet, they had very few outlets. Maybe a small gallery show here, feature in a magazine there. But the pros had the connections, were in the know. It was harder to get noticed, but once you did, you were in.

Now due to the internet, more of these really good photographers are getting noticed, and this is hurting the established pros. Because it wasn't only their talents that set them apart, it was who they knew. So there's simply a much larger pool of talented photographers who have access to the world.

Just my speculation.

-jakub

 

[Roger Hicks]

I think the one thing the internet has done is given people more access. I think there are plenty of great, very talented photographers out there who never get noticed, and always have been. People who are just as skilled and talented as these pros we're talking about. In the days of film and pre-internet, they had very few outlets. Maybe a small gallery show here, feature in a magazine there. But the pros had the connections, were in the know. It was harder to get noticed, but once you did, you were in.

Now due to the internet, more of these really good photographers are getting noticed, and this is hurting the established pros. Because it wasn't only their talents that set them apart, it was who they knew. So there's simply a much larger pool of talented photographers who have access to the world.

Just my speculation.

-jakub

Dear Jakub,

Yes, but part of the trick lay in making the connections in the first place, and then in (reliably) delivering the goods that were ordered.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Times they are a changing….but it’s the best time ever to be an amateur photographer! Instead of a sock drawer or the shoe box you have flickr, facebook and a large number of similar sites which allow you to share your pictures with a wide audience. I have noticed that many of the ‘old-school’ photographers have simply not learned how to use flickr etc… to broadly showcase their pictures, or rather, their …ahum…‘work’.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Times they are a changing….but it’s the best time ever to be an amateur photographer! Instead of a sock drawer or the shoe box you have flickr, facebook and a large number of similar sites which allow you to share your pictures with a wide audience. I have noticed that many of the ‘old-school’ photographers have simply not learned how to use flickr etc… to broadly showcase their pictures, or rather, their …ahum…‘work’.

Dear Peter,

Or, perhaps, they don't think it's worth it? Maybe they are cynical about (a) the number of people who are actually likely to look at their pictures on such sites and (b) the value of being seen for nothing.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Tompas]

(...) Photography is not some cheap solution to existential crisis as a lot of people mistake it to be.

Hmm.... Crisis? What crisis?

 

[Tompas]

Every professional gets annoyed if people stand in his way, hindering him in his work -- not only professional photographers.

And not everybody welcomes additional competition. All very normal, I think.

 

[Out to Lunch]

the value of being seen for nothing

I don't understand what you mean ?

 

[Keith]

Well, I'm a PJ, and it's a practical matter for me.

Back in the day there were only a couple of PJ's roaming a high school football sideline shooting photos for the newspaper. Now, there are 20 moms with their Canon XTi and an 18-55mm lens banging into me and getting in front of me (actually out on the field!) to get blurry, so tiny they are unrecognizable snaps of their kids on the team, while making it really a pain for me to get shots for the newspaper.

I think that's the real gripe most pros have against amateurs in these situations. A scrum of soccer moms with cameras is a scary thing indeed.

Go on ... you love it!

 

[Ariefb]

happened to me several times. There was a time when the photographer arrogantly grabbed and pulled me aside so she can shoot the bride walking down the aisle. I was operating a steadicam that time.

talk about arrogance.