heiyu
Member
Hello everybody,
- introduction -
i'm quite new to this and caught the Leica virus already.
Shooting for many years as a freelance photographer with a dslr (Canon and only L lenses) I always wanted a Leica M and shoot with film for my personal work. And my dream came true as I bought a 2nd hand mint M6 6 months ago. Meanwhile I've added the Summilux 50 and the summicron 90 (all chrome pre owned/asph) which I love.
Now I'm still missing a nice wide angle. My local camerashop has bought a stock of brand new Zeiss Biogon 28 F2.8 and sales them for 500EUR, which is a great price. (Normal around 900EUR).
- Question-
Now my question is how does these compare to the latest Leica elmarit 28 asph? Which is much more expensive (1400EUR). I can cough up the money but is it really much better than the Zeiss or are they almost equal? Have anybody of you had personal experience with the Zeiss? I mean it's ZEISS so how bad can it be?
I thought asking you some more experienced guys before I take the jump. Thanks!
- introduction -
i'm quite new to this and caught the Leica virus already.
Shooting for many years as a freelance photographer with a dslr (Canon and only L lenses) I always wanted a Leica M and shoot with film for my personal work. And my dream came true as I bought a 2nd hand mint M6 6 months ago. Meanwhile I've added the Summilux 50 and the summicron 90 (all chrome pre owned/asph) which I love.Now I'm still missing a nice wide angle. My local camerashop has bought a stock of brand new Zeiss Biogon 28 F2.8 and sales them for 500EUR, which is a great price. (Normal around 900EUR).
- Question-
Now my question is how does these compare to the latest Leica elmarit 28 asph? Which is much more expensive (1400EUR). I can cough up the money but is it really much better than the Zeiss or are they almost equal? Have anybody of you had personal experience with the Zeiss? I mean it's ZEISS so how bad can it be?
I thought asking you some more experienced guys before I take the jump. Thanks!
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Turtle
Veteran
Hi,
I cannot offer a direct comparison but cn say that I own 3 ZM lenses: 50 planar, 35 biogon and 28 biogon as well as a 50 asph lux and 90 Elmarit M:
The 28 is superb and holds its own just fine IMO. It is not as good on paper as the 25, or 35 for that matter but looking at negs and prints it looks wonderful which is where it matters.I wouldnot personally dream of spending the xtra 900 euros on the Leica over the biogon personally. Others may see things differently. For me, ZM lenses are on the of the best things about having a Leica M body IMO!!!! I hope to add the 21 4.5 at some point...I wont be considering Leica in that FL either. Way too expensive and for what?
900 euros is a lot of film, time overseas, frames or even another used body...
Just my view!
I cannot offer a direct comparison but cn say that I own 3 ZM lenses: 50 planar, 35 biogon and 28 biogon as well as a 50 asph lux and 90 Elmarit M:
The 28 is superb and holds its own just fine IMO. It is not as good on paper as the 25, or 35 for that matter but looking at negs and prints it looks wonderful which is where it matters.I wouldnot personally dream of spending the xtra 900 euros on the Leica over the biogon personally. Others may see things differently. For me, ZM lenses are on the of the best things about having a Leica M body IMO!!!! I hope to add the 21 4.5 at some point...I wont be considering Leica in that FL either. Way too expensive and for what?
900 euros is a lot of film, time overseas, frames or even another used body...
Just my view!
mfogiel
Veteran
heiu,
Your question is wrong, you should ask yourself : if it's a Leica lens, can it be really bad? Haha, I am sure this will stirr the waters a bit...
I am using the 21,25 and 35 Biogons, but alas in the 28mm fl I use the 28/2.8 Elmarit ASPH, and I am wondering if it really made any sense to spend so much more on an inferior Leica product... THis lens is not bad, but for me it does not stand up to the Zeiss glass, yet it has an interesting feature: a very compact size, which is what I wanted to get the best possible vision on my R4A.
Other people would probably point out that the MTF's are in favour of the Elmarit, and it is true, However, beyond shooting brick walls, I have read that the 28 Biogon is splendid, and the MTF's reflect a certain curvature of field. Therefore, if you are after architectonic shots, maybe this could be a problem, but I doubt it would be a problem in average type of street or landscape shots.
The Zeiss ZM glass produced so far, has a very consistent rendering, with unmistakably pleasing in and out of focus passage, 3d drawing and incredible flare resistance. To speak more frankly - I believe that there are several lens line ups in the RF world, which could satisfy even the most demanding shooters, these include Leica, Zeiss, CV and Hexanon lenses, with an occasional appearance from other producers. The difference between Leica and Zeiss is mainly in the type of drawing, the issues of sharpness or lens build at these levels become irrelevant.
I'd rather say, if you like the modern Leica drawing, but dislike Leica prices, try the CV lenses, which are often excellent at a price level which is absolutely acceptable.
Your question is wrong, you should ask yourself : if it's a Leica lens, can it be really bad? Haha, I am sure this will stirr the waters a bit...
I am using the 21,25 and 35 Biogons, but alas in the 28mm fl I use the 28/2.8 Elmarit ASPH, and I am wondering if it really made any sense to spend so much more on an inferior Leica product... THis lens is not bad, but for me it does not stand up to the Zeiss glass, yet it has an interesting feature: a very compact size, which is what I wanted to get the best possible vision on my R4A.
Other people would probably point out that the MTF's are in favour of the Elmarit, and it is true, However, beyond shooting brick walls, I have read that the 28 Biogon is splendid, and the MTF's reflect a certain curvature of field. Therefore, if you are after architectonic shots, maybe this could be a problem, but I doubt it would be a problem in average type of street or landscape shots.
The Zeiss ZM glass produced so far, has a very consistent rendering, with unmistakably pleasing in and out of focus passage, 3d drawing and incredible flare resistance. To speak more frankly - I believe that there are several lens line ups in the RF world, which could satisfy even the most demanding shooters, these include Leica, Zeiss, CV and Hexanon lenses, with an occasional appearance from other producers. The difference between Leica and Zeiss is mainly in the type of drawing, the issues of sharpness or lens build at these levels become irrelevant.
I'd rather say, if you like the modern Leica drawing, but dislike Leica prices, try the CV lenses, which are often excellent at a price level which is absolutely acceptable.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I really can't say anything about Leica because I don't know. Zeiss, unlike CV glass, kept me from feeling even the slightest bit curious given the punitive consequences for my store of clams.
Kinda tempted to divert the thread to focus on the merits of the ZM 28/2.8 versus all other modern 28s...
Kinda tempted to divert the thread to focus on the merits of the ZM 28/2.8 versus all other modern 28s...
heiyu
Member
Thanx guys (or gals) for your replies. I think I cannot justify the extra 900 EUR for the Leica. I've had the Zeiss 28/2.8 in my hands today and mounted on my m6. Not only the looks sexy (finally a silver 28mm) but it's also lightweight and compact. It doesn't feels as sturdy as the Leica lenses but the finish is top notch and focusring is smooth. I think I'm gonna pick it up this weekend, after I've done a photo shoot.... (great reward =).
Hacker
黑客
The Elmarit is virtually distortion free if perspective is important to you.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
£360 for a new 28 Biogon For me it would be a no brainer decision. For that price get the Biogon; If you realy don't like it, sell it on and you won't have lost much. Any chance of getting one for me?
Kim
For me it would be a no brainer decision. For that price get the Biogon; If you realy don't like it, sell it on and you won't have lost much. Any chance of getting one for me? Kim
It is to me... so the Zeiss is not distortion free?
maenju
Member
care to tell where that shop is?
back alley
IMAGES
3 year old thread here....
ampguy
Veteran
I didn't have a problem at with the minor distortion with my Biogon 28/2.8, but even with hood, and with or without filters it would flare anywhere near pointing towards the sun, ruining a lot of images for me, since I shoot into the sun a lot. If others don't have that issue, then of course, maybe I had a bad sample.
I don't have that issue at all with M-Hexanons, or the Canon 28/2.8 ltm, which is from like the late '50s or early '60s:
M8, 1/8000, Canon 28/2.8 LTM, too bright to look at the sun, blindly pointed camera and clicked, f4 or 5.6, there is some veiling flare here, but it's a usable image, the images in similar circumstances from my Biogon would be all washed out:
I don't have that issue at all with M-Hexanons, or the Canon 28/2.8 ltm, which is from like the late '50s or early '60s:
M8, 1/8000, Canon 28/2.8 LTM, too bright to look at the sun, blindly pointed camera and clicked, f4 or 5.6, there is some veiling flare here, but it's a usable image, the images in similar circumstances from my Biogon would be all washed out:
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That's funny... it seems most other threads say the lens is very flare resistant.
Tim Gray
Well-known
According to the spec sheet, the ZM has a bit of barrel (I think) distortion, but not that much, around 1%. This is less than the 21, 24, and 35 Summilux ASPHs for example. The 28 Summicron has a similar amount (according to the spec sheet) and I've never really been bothered by it. That being said, if you needed a minimum of distortion, the 28/2.8 ASPH, the ZM 35/2, the ZM 21/4.5, etc., might be better choices. According to the spec sheets again
I wouldn't hesitate to get a ZM 28 if I already didn't have the 28 Summicron. All the pictures I've seen from the ZM look great.
I wouldn't hesitate to get a ZM 28 if I already didn't have the 28 Summicron. All the pictures I've seen from the ZM look great.