Experiment v. questions

[Roger Hicks]

How many of us waste time asking questions when a quick, cheap experiment could solve it all?

Will I like Tessars? Dunno, try one and see. Should I use a soft release? Dunno, try one and see. How important are lens shades? Try shooting with and without, and see. Is Tri-X better than HP5 Plus? No-one can tell you: try a couple of rolls of each.

Is it because we can log on to RFF when we really should be doing something else? Classic 'displacement activity'?

Yes, the answers to a lot of these questions will cost $10-100 if you buy the kit (or film) in question. What's your time worth? Or are you afraid of (a) taking pictures and (b) forming your own opinion, without relying on somene else?

Of course there are major expenses where you want as much advance information as possible: few of us can afford to by a 24/1.4 Summilux on a whim. I certainly can't. Then, forum inquiries can be invaluable. But there are a lot of minor purchases where it would be quicker, easier and more informative to try it and see.

Sorry if this question appears a bit aggressively worded, but you might want to think how it applies to you. I've certainly thought how it applies to me.

Tashi delek,

R.

 

[rogue_designer]

Yeah, I can see some value in it, if the "try it" requires a serious investment either in money or time.

But your point is well appreciated. Some things, even with the best advice in the world, can't really be known until you experience it yourself. I can appreciate doing some research. But at some point, you need to step away from the forum, and out into the world.

 

[Benjamin]

Is it because we can log on to RFF when we really should be doing something else? Classic 'displacement activity'?

I agree, though I personally I have only ever asked equipment related questions here when I only want to buy once, and I find the advice given by people here with more experience of .... item of equipment invaluable.

I mean, if you want to know which version of the M2 is likely to be best as a user, then Tom A's input is always helpful. Though, there is of course no guarantee that any one camera suits everybody who is interested in them, it often does not hurt to ask. Sometimes it does.

HP5+ against Tri-X strikes me as a perfect example of your point however. I often wonder how people expect to learn anything without actually trying something out, for themselves.

In fact I once over heard a chap in a camera store ask "When should I press the shutter button?".

The answer to his question would of course only have to cost him a few frames. Though it might, however, take him a lifetime to figure it out, for himself.

 

[Nikon Bob]

I would agree that if it is cheap to try then just go and do it and form your own opinions. The catch here is what is cheap to me may not be to someone else. On expensive kit you should ask opinions on it before splashing out for it. You have to keep in mind opinions are like a certain body part and everybody has one. Ultimately, even for expensive gear you have to just try it to see if it is right for you and to find out which opinions on the gear were valid from your POV.

Bob

 

[bobkonos]

I agree with Roger. I cannot count the number of times I have read a thread with quesyions that made me think: "Geez buddy, try it out and see." A photographer named Fred Picker (Zone VI Studios, remember?) taught me that 25+ years ago through his newsletters. He was the essence of pragmatic and I learned a lot from him. Nothing beats learning from experience, especially in this "I want it now" world of ours.

Now, if someone is thinking of buying an expensive (for them) kit, well ok the opinions of those, while only opinions, could help. But when someone asks "Which black & white film for my M2?", well.......

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Yeah but, when you can't go out and shoot, and you've got this stuff on your mind, posting it here is a great way to elicit a bunch of interesting responses. Like today I spent about four hours printing hundreds of pages of crap for my upcoming (lord help me) tenure review. Nothing to do but make sure the printer doesn't jam and ask RFF to tell me the differences among all the different Leica collapsible f/2 50's.

 

[projectbluebird]

I prefer trying and doing, to asking. Over the last few years I have managed to acquire somewhere around 40+ cameras. All different formats, vintages, usability, etc. All used. Last time I tried adding up my costs I quit about halfway through, for the same amount of money I would have been able to get an M7 and a couple of faster primes. New. (or any number of new, expensive camera systems)

If I had to go back, I think I'd do the same thing over again. Because of my photographic adventures I have learned that I like using RF's better than SLR's. I have learned when medium format fits my shooting style, and even what my shooting style is.
(can't stand using large format, but it does make nice negatives)
I have also learned much more practical things; about film, composition, color, chemistry, optics and mechanics. That last one especially comes in handy, using older equipment.

Most of all, I've had fun. I like to think that I've improved my own photography to boot.

 

[Dave Wilkinson]

Like most Yorkshiremen, I call a ***** a shovel - and don't suffer bulls*#+t gladly! sorry - but I believe that the answer to most of the questions asked around here, is allready known to the enquirer!, and is for some reason, a form of attention seeking, in similar manner to the few people that post three or four chapters reply to some banal or nonsensical post, that most would not even bother with. Yes, as I recover from my illness, I have spent a lot more time around here than I usually do, but so far have not resorted to thinking-up unusual queries to post!. It's obvious that I'm feeling a bit cynical tonight, so I'll finish this scotch and water, and go to bed! 🙂
Cheers, Dave.

Now I notice - that I'm not allowed to use the name of a tool thats used for digging! LOL!!

 

[Benjamin Marks]

Roger: I think you are doing what you do best here, which is to stimulate good discussion. However, I think there would be a lot less traffic here (and a lesser sense of community) if folks took away as an answer to your question "I should be doing rather than talking." That's what a forum like this is for, by gum. The Nachwey's of the world are not lurking here, waiting to see, with bated breath, what we say on RFF; they are out there making photographs. I would also venture to guess that unlike you, most of us are holding down day jobs and indulging photography (or writing about photography) as a hobby. As mabelsound said: chained to a desk or in an office.

Today I posted a question about the practical possibilities for photo-stitching software vs. using a panoramic camera. I asked because my brother is getting married in a month and I have some ideas about photographing his wedding (an event I look forward to with great anticipation -- great gal, by the way). BUT - I work 60 hours a week, I have a wife trying to get tenure at an American college and we have small children who are a blast to be with. What does it add up to? Well: a rich and busy life, but vis photography: Not enough time to order a Horizon 202 or Widelux and run some test rolls. [I was going to write: "So cut a brother some slack . . ." but I thought it sounded too defensive . . . so there it is]

Best,

Ben Marks

 

[squirrel$$$bandit]

Ben, that's well put. Roger, trying stuff out is a cinch for you--photography is your career, you're going to be doing it anyway! Most of us here don't manage to make a living at it, and are forced to channel our desire to shoot into some lively discussion...

 

[kxl]

For inexpensive items, you are right in saying that nothing beats doing. However, for me the value in asking BEFORE TRYING is to get tips from experienced users of the item in question regarding "expected behavior" or pitfalls or any gems that someone else has already learned by experience and is willing to share.

Ultimately, yes I do have to try it out myself, but I always try to gather as much information as I can before I try something myself and make the final decision myself.

A case in point is the oft-asked "what B&W film should I use?" For those who grew up with digital and discovering film for the first time, there is value in researching (and sometimes asking) the question, since trying out EVERYTHING is impractical. From experienced B&W film users, they might get advice like "use Tri-X or HP5 for the wide latitude" or "Avoid TMX as your first B&W film since it is fincky wrt exposure and development." Whether or not they take heed is another matter entirely.

 

[antiquark]

Sometimes a roll of film sits in my camera for months 🙁... if I wanted to run a sequence of film experiments, it could become a multi-year project! It's wayyy faster just to ask someone here.

 

[marke]

Good thread, guys.

BTW, I was wondering...are the third party rear lens caps as good as the genuine Leica caps?

 

[Benjamin]

Good thread, guys.

BTW, I was wondering...are the third party rear lens caps as good as the genuine Leica caps?

Yeah dude. They are lens caps. Like bottle tops, you know. Dude.

 

[dee]

You know , my ASD creates anxiety about obeying rules , because I struggle with just about everything in a fragmented world .
However my anxious questions here , have been met with the reassurance - '' Enjoy what you have '' ... Summitar / Elmar / even a crisp little Fed 50 f3.5 - on Emma the M 8 ...
and my Kievs and '' new '' Contax ...
Which negates this question for me .

 

[dazedgonebye]

My shooting/developing time is very limited. If I can narrow something down or even answer a question by asking, I have to go with that.

No need my trying out square wheels when someone else has discovered those lovely round ones.

 

[Pablito]

BTW, I was wondering...are the third party rear lens caps as good as the genuine Leica caps?

Welll that would depend on the manufacturer of the third party product, the materials used, to what tolerances it was crafted.... 😀😱:bang:

Seriously, Roger, thanks for having the cojones to tell it like it is.

Now, then I'm traveling to (...fill in the exotic location of your choice...) What's a good film / lens for this location???? 😀😱:bang:😕

 

[marke]

Yeah dude. They are lens caps. Like bottle tops, you know. Dude.

Oh, those are even cheaper! Is Coke better than Pepsi?

Okay, seriously. I understand that there are many times a question could be answered just by trying it yourself. But first of all, this is a forum, isn't it? Doesn't that mean we can benefit from getting various opinions? Personally, I'm not going to even buy a $15 or $20 softie without first getting some opinions. And my recent question in the BBB thread answered a question I had from someone who is actually using them.

Will a Mikey's malt liquor wide-mouth bottle cap fit a Summilux 50/1.4 (pre-asph)? I know, I know...just buy the beer and try it out myself! 😛

 

[Pablito]

Yes, the answers to a lot of these questions will cost $10-100 if you buy the kit (or film) in question. What's your time worth? .

Or rather, what's your WORK worth?

 

[Bingley]

My shooting/developing time is very limited. If I can narrow something down or even answer a question by asking, I have to go with that.

No need my trying out square wheels when someone else has discovered those lovely round ones.

Ditto.

I also believe that asking questions can be a sign of respect for the expertise of other members here, particularly since RFF includes pros and highly talented hobbyist photographers.

I do try to use the search function and look at older threads, though, to see if a question I have has previously been asked and answered. Not wasting the time of others is also a sign of respect.