Little Prince
Well-known
So what can go wrong with outdated B&W film? I know with color film you may expect color shifts and so on. What may happen with B&W? Never tried it.
Expired B&W film?
- Thread starter Little Prince
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simonankor
Registered Addict
I used some at a party a little while ago, 400 rated at 800... the only thing was it came out really grainy. But I didn't process it myself, I got a lab to do it. It was around 4 years out of date.
Tin
Well-known
Your expired film may lose some speed, and may develop some fog. I always store my film in a plastic bag in the freezer, so I am not too concerned about using film that has passed its expeiry date.
W
wlewisiii
Guest
If it was stored in a freezer, not much different. I've just gotten a box of 4x5 Tmax400 dated 2/98 and it's just like new. OTOH, I had some 30 year out of date (5/72!) Tri-X that had a bit (!) of fogging after only being stored in the basement, but was still usable for snapshots. I rated it at 400 using Diafine and the images were good enough to scan if a bit dark.
William
William
captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
I used some film (XP2) that that was right at it's expiration date that had been sitting in a basket in the camera store. Results were HORRIBLE! Grainy, hardly any separation between tones, just generally YUCK. I wouldn't recommend it.
Poptart
Screw Loose & Fancy-Free
I've shot a lot of *really* expired b&w in my life as a poor student artist. The main things I've noticed are 1) loss of rated speed, 2) loss of contrast, and 3) appearance of orange peel in the emulsion--only this last one is serious and could even be something you might want for the effect. So shoot up that old film!
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I also have some rolls of TechPan25 in 120-format...outdated by a hear and a bit...I hope they are still okay! Would not expect fogging from such a low-speed film.
OTOH, i once used a Delta3200 that was outdated by more than a year. The results got extreeemely grainy (i expected them to be).
OTOH, i once used a Delta3200 that was outdated by more than a year. The results got extreeemely grainy (i expected them to be).
phototone
Well-known
B/W film has to really be old, and/or stored under very hot conditions to show much visible deterioration. The most noticable would be an increase in base fog, which you would notice even out in the sprocket hole areas. This would result in lower contrast prints, but if you scan, you can just adjust the levels and fairly well get back the full tonal range.
Also, you may notice more curling of the film strip, when you cut the film down into strips to put in sleeves.
Also, you may notice more curling of the film strip, when you cut the film down into strips to put in sleeves.
davidbivins
Established
Old TMAX 3200 works
Old TMAX 3200 works
In the last few months I've shot most of a lot of TMZ3200 that was dated 2001 and had been refrigerated in a zippered plastic bag (friend gave it and a lot of other film to me). I've developed it normally, using the old TMZ times, with XTOL and it's all come out just fine.
Old TMAX 3200 works
In the last few months I've shot most of a lot of TMZ3200 that was dated 2001 and had been refrigerated in a zippered plastic bag (friend gave it and a lot of other film to me). I've developed it normally, using the old TMZ times, with XTOL and it's all come out just fine.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
More fog (probably). Slight speed loss (maybe) -- give 1/2 stop extra to begin with. Slight increase needed in development time (usually) -- try 10%. No big thing.
Cheers,
Roger
Cheers,
Roger
I understand the increase in base fog comes from gradual exposure to cosmic rays (which penetrate pretty much everything), so the greatest effect is on more sensitive films; i.e., fast films get more fogging effect than slow films over the same span of time.
I bulk-loaded a lot of Ilford Pan-F and XP-1 back in the early 1980's, then my interest in photography tapered off for a while. I had other films too, commercially loaded. So in recent years I've been using some of this old film. The Pan-F seems normal, and both the XP-1 and Tri-X seem to have a little more base fog than new XP-2 and Tri-X.
Fuji and Kodak 1000 and 1600 speed color neg films are unusable; grainy and fogged. Surprisingly, a bunch of Kodak Gold 100 went bad too; it may not have been refrigerated earlier on... it has a mild-but-annoying color cross-over problem.
I bulk-loaded a lot of Ilford Pan-F and XP-1 back in the early 1980's, then my interest in photography tapered off for a while. I had other films too, commercially loaded. So in recent years I've been using some of this old film. The Pan-F seems normal, and both the XP-1 and Tri-X seem to have a little more base fog than new XP-2 and Tri-X.
Fuji and Kodak 1000 and 1600 speed color neg films are unusable; grainy and fogged. Surprisingly, a bunch of Kodak Gold 100 went bad too; it may not have been refrigerated earlier on... it has a mild-but-annoying color cross-over problem.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Dear Doug,
Cosmic rays but also heat, slow reactions with sulphur compounds, increasing cross-linkage of the gelatine vehicle (extra hardening > longer dev times and also increased curling). With colour (and chromogenic to a lesser extent), you also have dye migration and deterioration, the latter at differential rates hence crossed curves.
You are of course entirely right that usually fast films deteriorate worse.
Cheers,
Roger
Cosmic rays but also heat, slow reactions with sulphur compounds, increasing cross-linkage of the gelatine vehicle (extra hardening > longer dev times and also increased curling). With colour (and chromogenic to a lesser extent), you also have dye migration and deterioration, the latter at differential rates hence crossed curves.
You are of course entirely right that usually fast films deteriorate worse.
Cheers,
Roger
Little Prince
Well-known
Hmm.. based on these responses, it may be worthwhile. At least for non-serious situations. I'll restrict myself to 100 speed films.
dkapp
Established
I'm using some T-Max that that has been expired for 2-3 years w/o any problems. I got it from a friend that switched from film to digital & it was the remainder of a 100' roll, never stored in the freezer or refrigerator. Looks good to me 🙂
tetrisattack
Maximum Creativity!
I have 300' of Plus-X, expired 1989. Here's a thread about it:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8009
Lack of dynamic range for sure - the film has lost a good deal of speed so exposing long enough to get good shadow detail makes the highlights very dense, which is just worsened by the base fog.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8009
Lack of dynamic range for sure - the film has lost a good deal of speed so exposing long enough to get good shadow detail makes the highlights very dense, which is just worsened by the base fog.
