Expired Xtol?

Distilled water is the way to go. I usually use all my 5L Xtol packs in 4-5 months at 1+1 dilution, stored in a floating lid tank : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/88372-REG/Doran_Plastic_Storage_Tank_2.html

Never had a problem except one time where I had one Xtol sudden death with the last 500ml of solution left in the tank. It wasn't even old (mixed 3 months before) and the negatives came out almost clear. But the package was bought from a local store and I was wondering if it might has been sitting on the shelf for too long? I never had a problem with the Xtol packages I bought from B&H.
 
Laviolette said:
Distilled water is the way to go. I usually use all my 5L Xtol packs in 4-5 months at 1+1 dilution, stored in a floating lid tank : http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/88372-REG/Doran_Plastic_Storage_Tank_2.html

Never had a problem except one time where I had one Xtol sudden death with the last 500ml of solution left in the tank. It wasn't even old (mixed 3 months before) and the negatives came out almost clear. But the package was bought from a local store and I was wondering if it might has been sitting on the shelf for too long? I never had a problem with the Xtol packages I bought from B&H.
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"Distilled water is the way to go." Ugh. It is comments like this that kept me from mixing up a package of XTOL I bought nearly three years ago. Distilled water is very expensive here in Norway. I resolved not to spend money for water so I just started using D-76 and let the XTOL sit in its package.

This winter I had reason to try XTOL with pushed film and I returned to this issue to find, to my great surprise, that Kodak does NOT specifically recommend distilled water. The issue is the level of dissolved minerals in the water. I then researched my local water supply and found it rated soft on the national scale.

I mixed up five liters of XTOL on Christmas day. Impressive packaging, I must say. Have used 3.5 liters thus far, no problems with the developer. I store it in dark glass wine and beer bottles. Kodak recommends keeping it for up to six months in full bottles, but only two months in partly filled bottles.
 
lynnb said:
I've just learnt this lesson (XTOL sudden death shelf life) the hard way. Developed 2 rolls 35mm FP4+ in 150ml XTOL that had been stored in a plastic concertina bottle. The mixture was first made up 5 months previously. Dev tank required 580ml so I diluted the remaining 150ml in 450ml water (1:3), at 14.75m as per Massive Dev Chart. Resulting negs were very thin, almost completely transparent, exposed frames barely visible under bright light.

Because there was so little XTOL full strength remaining in the concertina storage bottle, there was a quite a lot of air remaining. I'd used the same solution about 4 weeks previously so I thought there'd be no problem. The storage bottle had been in a dark closet which was at room temp, but this was through an Australian summer so it could easily have reached high 20s.

Both rolls were exposed in an F80 which has DX coding and has never had a problem with exposure.

Next time, I'll test the developer first. I do like the results I get with XTOL.
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I'm no expert, but I don't think you are supposed store developer in plastic bottles. Also XTOL at 1:3 is not recommended by Kodak. You used a mere 75ml of developer per roll. I found that with nearly double that--145ml of freshly mixed XTOL per roll (2 rolls @ 1+1 in a 590ml Paterson tank)--I got thin negatives. I posted the results here and the predominate opinion was inadequate developer volume.

Since then I have been using a full 250ml of developer per roll @1+1. I have had very good results and the includes a week ago when I used developer that sat in half-filled bottle for a month.
 
besk said:
Make sure the storage container is glass.
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The accordion-design AP black plastic storage bottles are sold by photographic supplies retailers world wide. I assumed they were OK, however after doing a search I found these comments that dark glass containers have fewer risks (less chance of air leakage in, or leaks developing in the plastic folds; and easier to clean).

The attraction of the accordion bottles is their large capacity and ease of expelling air.
 
I have used "recycled" glass bottles (soda, wine, beer etc.) for storing developers. As to the distilled water - it is pretty cheap in the States so I use it.
 
I've used Xtol since it was introduced in 1997 or 98. I've *literally* processed thousands of rolls for myself and clients using it, and i've had exactly 2 sudden death failures. One was from the original 1L packaging in I think the very first year 1999 and the other was about a year later when I had a bit of iron get into my water supply. Both results were of thin negatives and I did not lose any images. As long as I applied a different set of work habits than D-76 I've had very very little problems with Xtol
 
Xtol was introduced in 1995-1996 by Kodak and indeed that 1 ltr. packing give it a bad name. However most Ascorbic Acid type developers have a limited life span (4-6 months). Only PC-TEA from Patrick Gainer has a longer life span.

Minimum risk with Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27: Glass bottles and destilled water.
 
Without precautions Xtol is almost dead after 10 months ....

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The 1 ltr. alternative:

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Fomadon Excel W27 (Foma, Czech Republic) from their Foton chemical factory in Poland.
 
For storing xtol I use the bags from 5 liter water cartons. Easy to fill and with the cap back on squeezing the air out is a no brainer. You can either drink the water or use it to make your xtol.
I also stir my Xtol very gently when mixing in the powder so les air gets in the soup.

As aside note, the bags you get in the water cartons are the same as in the 'Sea to Summit' water bladders.
 
I know the system, also used in the photochemical industry. However they give quite a lot of diffusion. So for Xtol I divide them in Glass bottles which have no diffusion problems of air/oxygen.
 
I like the results I got with Fomapan 200 in XTOL, but from now on I will buy the EXCEL version rather than Kodak; although it works out to be more expensive per roll, 1 liter of developer is far more manageable than 5 liters.
 
The results with Xtol/Fomadon Excel W27 and FP200 E.I. 160 are excellent.

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C.V. Bessa III 667 in Ukraine. FP200 Excel W27 1+1.

or in 35mm format:

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Zorki with J-8. FP200 Xtol 1+1.

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Same combination. Liberty museum, Overloon, the Netherlands. (At least you know why we had democracy and freedom in Holland).
 
lynnb said:
The accordion-design AP black plastic storage bottles are sold by photographic supplies retailers world wide. I assumed they were OK, however after doing a search I found these comments that dark glass containers have fewer risks (less chance of air leakage in, or leaks developing in the plastic folds; and easier to clean).

The attraction of the accordion bottles is their large capacity and ease of expelling air.
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I can see the attraction of the accordion bottles, absolutely. I hate all these assorted beer, wine and even vinegar bottles I have around at 750, 500, 330, 250 ml in order to accommodate my rather irregular development routines. But I read early in this process that it is best to use dark glass and I started that way and have stuck to it. I can see how plastic would be more absorbent and also interact with the chemicals so i assumed that over a period of months that there could be a problem. I think the plastic is fine if you use the developer up relatively quickly.
 
Schott coated glass bottles or PET or HDPE (Jobo wide neck) or Nova bottles.
Accordion bottles are crap because they have a large inner surface filled with all small air bubbles which are oxidating your chemicals.
 
Or use "bullet proof" developers like R09/Rodinal (for slow- and medium speed classical- cubical type films) or HC-110 for faster iso speed films and Tgrain type films.

Here an example of TMY-2 in the Kiev-4AM with J-8M souped in HC-110 (B).

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I think when this FSU RF disease is going on, my Leica M7 can be retired soon .... :angel:
 
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