titrisol
Bottom Feeder
True, my "newest" guid is from 1974 and shows XX in sheet format only
Anyway it sayd D76 12 min
HC110 (B) 9 min
Cheers!
Anyway it sayd D76 12 min
HC110 (B) 9 min
Cheers!
Exposing Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica
- Thread starter Nokton48
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L
lkgroup
Guest
I just rolled another 30 rolls of XX to use. I should have a chance to get out this weekend and shoot some. I also have a 400 ft roll of Plus x movie stock that I haven't open yet. It will be interesting to try it with Toms idea of 100 ASA and using the Adox developer.
I have a new camera to try a 1957 2a Kiev FSU. I think this year is in the sweet spot for Kiev's. It's closer to being a Contax than the later models. I got it from a person in Denmark for a reasonable amount and it seems quiet nice. The shutter is quieter than my M6 and that is something.
From Cloudy Washington
Leo
I have a new camera to try a 1957 2a Kiev FSU. I think this year is in the sweet spot for Kiev's. It's closer to being a Contax than the later models. I got it from a person in Denmark for a reasonable amount and it seems quiet nice. The shutter is quieter than my M6 and that is something.
From Cloudy Washington
Leo
df cardwell
Member
This talk of XX is a VERY bad thing. Making picture taking slightly more difficult is always fun !
A simple D-76 variant-of-a-variant is D-89:
metol 3g
sulfite 100g
borax 5g
pot bromide 1/2 g
Originally calling for Pinacryptol Green, a desensitizer and anti-foggant,
potassium bromide is readily available and works fine.
The difference between this and Kodak's packaged D-76 is slightly less base fog,
due to the bromide. The formula is re-jiggered to compensate for the bromide,
and HQ is unnecessary, so left out.
Use the same times and dilutions as packaged D-76. Or D-96.
A simple D-76 variant-of-a-variant is D-89:
metol 3g
sulfite 100g
borax 5g
pot bromide 1/2 g
Originally calling for Pinacryptol Green, a desensitizer and anti-foggant,
potassium bromide is readily available and works fine.
The difference between this and Kodak's packaged D-76 is slightly less base fog,
due to the bromide. The formula is re-jiggered to compensate for the bromide,
and HQ is unnecessary, so left out.
Use the same times and dilutions as packaged D-76. Or D-96.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
The D 89 formula sounds interesting. I did try something like that years ago and as I am running short of HQ at the moment I might give it another go.
Just did a 2nd run of Adox/XX. I did cut the time 30 sec (6,5 min) just to see what it did. A bit "darker" than the previous run, but still holds shadow detail well.
I am going to use up the current batch of Adox (another 25-30 rolls) just to see if there is a change in processing quality as it is being used.
I am also keen to try it with the Td 201 (Steve Anchell "The Film developing Cookbook) as I got very good results with Tri X and that combination last year. Of course, each developer combination requires at least 20-30 rolls to establish so even though I am shooting 2-3 rolls a day it will take some time.
The split D 76 is also good with XX. If you cut the Sodium Sulphite by 30% you get better grain and sharpness. The penalty is slightly longer times in the B-bath.
Oh, then there is the D 96 - a bit softer than D76, but great mid-tones too. So many developers, so many rolls and so little time!
Part of this is also a "Sunny f16" project. Shoot everything without using a meter in camera or handheld.
Downloaded another 30+ shots on Flickr today from the second batch of Adox/XX.
Just did a 2nd run of Adox/XX. I did cut the time 30 sec (6,5 min) just to see what it did. A bit "darker" than the previous run, but still holds shadow detail well.
I am going to use up the current batch of Adox (another 25-30 rolls) just to see if there is a change in processing quality as it is being used.
I am also keen to try it with the Td 201 (Steve Anchell "The Film developing Cookbook) as I got very good results with Tri X and that combination last year. Of course, each developer combination requires at least 20-30 rolls to establish so even though I am shooting 2-3 rolls a day it will take some time.
The split D 76 is also good with XX. If you cut the Sodium Sulphite by 30% you get better grain and sharpness. The penalty is slightly longer times in the B-bath.
Oh, then there is the D 96 - a bit softer than D76, but great mid-tones too. So many developers, so many rolls and so little time!
Part of this is also a "Sunny f16" project. Shoot everything without using a meter in camera or handheld.
Downloaded another 30+ shots on Flickr today from the second batch of Adox/XX.
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
How much water does that D-89 formula call for?
I've been working up to the idea of loading movie film, a la barnack, for some time. I haven't been able to find any reliable source of short ends so I went straight to the horse's mouth, as it were.
Current U.S. prices, And Kodak stock #'s!
That works out to (roughly) 32 cents/ft, for either length in either emulsion.
or $1.75 for a roll of 36. (@5.5 feet according to my '61 Leica manual.)
which makes (at least) 72 rolls/400' or 180 rolls/1000'
Compare to:
...Suddenly it's even more appealing. That's a lot of film, but that will just make me get out and use it!
I've been working up to the idea of loading movie film, a la barnack, for some time. I haven't been able to find any reliable source of short ends so I went straight to the horse's mouth, as it were.
Current U.S. prices, And Kodak stock #'s!
Black & White negative, 35mm film.
5222 (Double X)
173 7279 $127.68 400'
198 2511 $319.20 1000'
5231 (Plus X)
167 7723 $127.68 400'
111 6417 $319.20 1000'
5222 (Double X)
173 7279 $127.68 400'
198 2511 $319.20 1000'
5231 (Plus X)
167 7723 $127.68 400'
111 6417 $319.20 1000'
That works out to (roughly) 32 cents/ft, for either length in either emulsion.
or $1.75 for a roll of 36. (@5.5 feet according to my '61 Leica manual.)
which makes (at least) 72 rolls/400' or 180 rolls/1000'
Compare to:
Plus-X
$4.99 135-36 (90 cents/ft)
$42.95 100' (43 cents/ft or $2.36/36 roll)
HP5
$3.99 135-36 (72 cents/ft)
$39.85 100' (40 cents/ft or $2.19/36 roll)
Wow. That's the first time I've run the numbers, and what a surprise.$4.99 135-36 (90 cents/ft)
$42.95 100' (43 cents/ft or $2.36/36 roll)
HP5
$3.99 135-36 (72 cents/ft)
$39.85 100' (40 cents/ft or $2.19/36 roll)
...Suddenly it's even more appealing. That's a lot of film, but that will just make me get out and use it!
df cardwell
Member
D89, revised
D89, revised
" running short of HQ at the moment " = The Mother of Invention !
Kodak D-89, as revised by Ryuji Suzuki
metol 3.0g
sodium sulfite (anh) 100 g
borax (decahydrate) 5.0g
potassium bromide 0.5g of
water to make 1 liter
My notes:
1. It is indistinguishable to me from D-76, but with less base fog. (I think !)
2. For sheet film, I use D-89 ( and D-76 ) straight.
3. For 35mm, I like the results of 1+2 dilution. (Goldilocks' balance between too soft, and too sharp ... just right )
Doubling your normal development time, and agitating once per minute may work for you.
Packaged D-76 will probably last longer in solution.
Good Luck !
D89, revised
" running short of HQ at the moment " = The Mother of Invention !
Kodak D-89, as revised by Ryuji Suzuki
metol 3.0g
sodium sulfite (anh) 100 g
borax (decahydrate) 5.0g
potassium bromide 0.5g of
water to make 1 liter
My notes:
1. It is indistinguishable to me from D-76, but with less base fog. (I think !)
2. For sheet film, I use D-89 ( and D-76 ) straight.
3. For 35mm, I like the results of 1+2 dilution. (Goldilocks' balance between too soft, and too sharp ... just right )
Doubling your normal development time, and agitating once per minute may work for you.
Packaged D-76 will probably last longer in solution.
Good Luck !
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
I recommend the 400ft spools of XX or Plus X. As there are no daylight loaders available, you have to load in total darkness and 400 ft of film coiling on the table is bad enough - 1000ft is a LOT.
I tend to load the whole spool in one sitting and then have a month or month and a half worth of "shooting" stock. This way you forget the misery of loading and just enjoy the shooting part!
The Plus X is an interesting emulsion too. Years ago I used the movie stock version of it and it is quite remarkable for its tonal range. Kodak rates it at 80 in daylight, but it has enough latitude to make 100 usable and in a pinch 125. Somewhere in my files there are some negs from this, done in D 23 - almost large format type of mid-tone latitude.
With the D23 you do get a bit more base fog (I usually add some benzotriazole to it -10ml of 1% solution/1000ml and that does help). Grain is fine though a bit mushed up because of the Sodium Sulphite. Initial try I would recommend 6 min with 3 turns/60 sec.
I only have 400 ft of the Plus X in the freezer, but I will order another 2000 ft for the summer as well as top up my XX stock this spring.
At the moment Vancouver is having one of its truly dreary January days, about 1/60@2.8 with XX and rain to boot!
I tend to load the whole spool in one sitting and then have a month or month and a half worth of "shooting" stock. This way you forget the misery of loading and just enjoy the shooting part!
The Plus X is an interesting emulsion too. Years ago I used the movie stock version of it and it is quite remarkable for its tonal range. Kodak rates it at 80 in daylight, but it has enough latitude to make 100 usable and in a pinch 125. Somewhere in my files there are some negs from this, done in D 23 - almost large format type of mid-tone latitude.
With the D23 you do get a bit more base fog (I usually add some benzotriazole to it -10ml of 1% solution/1000ml and that does help). Grain is fine though a bit mushed up because of the Sodium Sulphite. Initial try I would recommend 6 min with 3 turns/60 sec.
I only have 400 ft of the Plus X in the freezer, but I will order another 2000 ft for the summer as well as top up my XX stock this spring.
At the moment Vancouver is having one of its truly dreary January days, about 1/60@2.8 with XX and rain to boot!
Nokton48
Veteran
M2 & I went shooting today, and it's a bright sun 1/250 f8 (and 5.6) XX day here in Ohio. NO METER. Finished off my first roll with the Rapidwinder, and Im thinking it's going to be a great experience, because I've actually been carrying it around all week with me, and using it.
Anyway, my first roll of XX is in the can (as they say out in Hollywood). M2 and I then went shopping at the local photo-fleamarket stores in my area. I ended up with a vintage Honeywell Nikor 5-reel tank w/rod, two Patterson graduates, extra Patterson safelight bulb, and two new plastic litre Kalt darkroom bottles, to mix the D-96 and D-96 Replenisher (I"m going to start with that) with XX.
Now, if I can find the little weight set for my graduated balance, I'll be in business with this project.
Anyway, my first roll of XX is in the can (as they say out in Hollywood). M2 and I then went shopping at the local photo-fleamarket stores in my area. I ended up with a vintage Honeywell Nikor 5-reel tank w/rod, two Patterson graduates, extra Patterson safelight bulb, and two new plastic litre Kalt darkroom bottles, to mix the D-96 and D-96 Replenisher (I"m going to start with that) with XX.
Now, if I can find the little weight set for my graduated balance, I'll be in business with this project.
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Nokton48
Veteran
Hi All,
Just ordered 400' of Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 5231, directly from Eastman Kodak in NYC. Cost a total of $144.30 ($127.68 + $8.00UPS +$8.62 tax).
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/bw/5231.jhtml
Contact Info:
Kodak Cinema & Television
360 W 31st St
New York, NY 10001
212-631-3400
800-621-FILM
So, Now I will have 35mm XX and Plus-X Motion Picture film for awhile.
Just ordered 400' of Eastman Plus-X Negative Film 5231, directly from Eastman Kodak in NYC. Cost a total of $144.30 ($127.68 + $8.00UPS +$8.62 tax).
http://www.kodak.com/US/en/motion/products/bw/5231.jhtml
Contact Info:
Kodak Cinema & Television
360 W 31st St
New York, NY 10001
212-631-3400
800-621-FILM
So, Now I will have 35mm XX and Plus-X Motion Picture film for awhile.
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Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Dan, let me know how the +X works out. I am still waiting for spring and summer before I load up mine. This no meter shooting with anything but TriX does tax the brain a bit. After 35 rolls of XX I ma getting it with the 250 asa, but slower than that will give me a hadache!
As you know by know, large quantitie of film loaded up and a M2 is highly addictive.
Are you going to post naything soon?
As you know by know, large quantitie of film loaded up and a M2 is highly addictive.
Are you going to post naything soon?
Nokton48
Veteran
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just "souped" another five rolls of XX in Adox. This time I added 30 sec to the time (7min 30 sec) just to see what it looks like. Just looking at the film hanging to dry - looks a bit "dense" but I will try to scan some stuff tomorrow from it.
Just started this project of shooting 8-10 rolls with a M2, a 35f1.4 Summilux (Pre Asph) in anticipation of the new Nokton 35f1,4 MC/SC that should arrive in February. Weather is promised to be sunny for the next 2-3 days so f16 over filmspeed will be applied.
Just started this project of shooting 8-10 rolls with a M2, a 35f1.4 Summilux (Pre Asph) in anticipation of the new Nokton 35f1,4 MC/SC that should arrive in February. Weather is promised to be sunny for the next 2-3 days so f16 over filmspeed will be applied.
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Just posted another 25 frames from the last batch of XX. This time I did run it for 7.5 minutes instead of 7. A bit "sharper" contrast. Worked with some shots, but I think I stick with the 7min time.
The grain is a bit more defined with the longer time, but it is not objectionable. Will be inteersting to try it with either Beutler or Rodinal a bit later. Probably 1:50 for 10-11 min. Exagerated sharpness and sharper grain structure.
The grain is a bit more defined with the longer time, but it is not objectionable. Will be inteersting to try it with either Beutler or Rodinal a bit later. Probably 1:50 for 10-11 min. Exagerated sharpness and sharper grain structure.
Nokton48
Veteran
I'm just up and out of my basement darkroom, mixed up 1000ml of Leo's Adox MQ Borax developer, and 1000ml of the Adox MQ Borax replenisher. That's enough to get me started with a two-reel tank (hope to soup my first two rolls of XX tommorrow) if I can pull another roll through the M2, or maybe four rolls in my new five-reel Nikor tank. Next time I'll mix a gallon of the developer, if I like it. It's tough to get out shooting right now, since I work during the week, and it's dark when I leave! Do you guys like the Adox MQ Borax with the +X, as well?
Tom I love the new M2, got quite a nice "photo buzz" using it Saturday, streetshooting with the new Rapidwinder it's flawlessly smooth. And I like eyeballing the exposures 😎
Tom I love the new M2, got quite a nice "photo buzz" using it Saturday, streetshooting with the new Rapidwinder it's flawlessly smooth. And I like eyeballing the exposures 😎
Tom A
RFF Sponsor
Dan. I would recommend just making up 2000ml of the Adox and a 1000ml replenisher. By the time you have used up the replenisher (at 20ml/roll) you will have run 50 rolls through the Adox Stock and you be surprised how much crap has accumulated in it by then. You can filter it, but I suggest that you only do 50 rolls in one batch and then remix. Even though the Adox is quite stable, you will have some reactions in it over a couple of weeks and it is a cheap soup to start with.
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
Here's a question for those who've already bought this film. How large are the 400' cans? I have limited amounts of fridge space.
L
lkgroup
Guest
The two 400' film cans I have are about 7 1/2" wide by 1 1/2" high.
They are about twice as wide as a 100' can. I split the 400' rolls in my darkroom to smaller sizes, and fill up some extra left over 100' cans so I can use them in my bulk film loader. I think Tom loads his film in the dark by hand.
Leo
They are about twice as wide as a 100' can. I split the 400' rolls in my darkroom to smaller sizes, and fill up some extra left over 100' cans so I can use them in my bulk film loader. I think Tom loads his film in the dark by hand.
Leo
larmarv916
Well-known
Ok....I stumbled on this thread and Iam game for bulk loading. But my question is...that I know very little about "Double X" or XX. What ASA ? Also Plus X has been made in so many versions. The later one I did not care for.
I shoot both ADOX CHS and Efke brands. But my perfered developer is XTOL My next question is where do I get the reels and cans for converting the 400ft down to rolls of 100ft ?? So all advice is welcome. Best Regards.....Laurance
I shoot both ADOX CHS and Efke brands. But my perfered developer is XTOL My next question is where do I get the reels and cans for converting the 400ft down to rolls of 100ft ?? So all advice is welcome. Best Regards.....Laurance
dpetrzelka
Well-known
What are your thoughts on 5222 and Xtol?
Has anyone tried that combo?
Has anyone tried that combo?
projectbluebird
Film Abuser
Both of the emulsions we've been talking about in this thread (XX 5222 and Plus X 5231) are motion picture films. The official ASA's according to the Kodak datasheets (Daylight/Tungsten):larmarv916 said:
80/64 for the PlusX
250/200 for XX
Also according to the datasheets, 5231 has less resolving power than the still-photography Plus-X (ASA 125)
If you've shot any bulk film before, you can use the leftover cans. Otherwise I'd suggest poking around the well-known auction site, I've seen plenty empty cans there. You won't need any special reels, because you load standard cassettes. After that step, it's just like shooting and developing film from the store.
Because these films were intended as motion picture films, they have more limited reccomended developers. Hence the more esoteric recipes we've been bandying about. Unfortunately, XTOL is not among the official data, nor does anyone seem to have played around with it on their own.(yet) The 5222 can be developed with plain old D-76, which can be found at any serious photographic store, or many places online.
But if you're serious enough to be loading 400' of bulk film, you may want to do your own ASA/Developing tests. You'll certainly have plenty of film to play with!
If you do decide to go this route, you can always brag to your photo buddies about how "serious" you take your photography. 😀 But always remember to have fun!
