Exposing Eastman (Double-X) 5222 in the Leica

[Nokton48]

Thanks for the response, Chris.

I think (for now) I will continue loading my cartridges by the hand method. Bulk loaders are cool, I can see I will need to use one, especially if I start loading XX onto the thrown-away 35mm C41 cartridges from the local mini-labs. You have to see what you are doing to attach the film to what is still protruding from the film cartridge, so for that I'll need to load 100 footers into my loaders. But on the other hand, the "stretch out an arms length" in the dark method is working well with the "felt-lip" reloadable cartridges I am used to handling. Somebody said "roll until the film fills up the spool completely", and this works, so I'll continue to stay with that. And I'll soon buy another 400' of XX for Spring 🙂

So M2 still has 1/2 of the fifth new roll XX still to go, and then I'll make another run w/ 5-reel Nikkor tank and the filtered ADOX Borax MQ developer. And I'll try to get something scanned, and up here soon. The negs look like they will make pretty amazing midtone tonality, if carefully wet-printed. At the moment I am presently 35mm scanner-challenged.

 

[dpetrzelka]

This was a really unglamorous test- my usual shots of my son, captive in his high-chair.
I shot the Eastman 5222 (Double-X) at 400EI, f2 1/30 with my 50/2 Collapsible Summicron- I'm sure some of the low contrast is from glass, some just the nature of the stock.

Developed in it stock Xtol (~68 degrees) for 6 minutes - constant agitation for first minute, then 4 secs every 30 seconds after that. I have a long way to go, but its proved to work well enough that I should have 400' showing up later this week.

Just need to round up some of those IXMOO reloadble cassettes!

 

[cosmonot]

My 100' roll seems to be kind of fogged, and from the test roll looks like the best I can get is ~125-150 ASA out in the sun/open shade. Developed in TMAX developer, using the times for Tri-X (6 min at 68 deg F).

Here's some quick scans from my junky flatbed.

 

[cosmonot]

A couple more. Nothing really great, but the wind coming off the water that day was pretty cold (there was still some ice on the lake...) so I worked quick to burn the two rolls. I'll probably play around with this outdated stock a little more, but I think I sold the idea of splitting a 400' roll with one of my friends.

BTW, all images shot with the M2, either 40/1.4 or a 50/3.5 Elmar.

And just an example to show how I had to play with the levels to pull out workable images:

 

[Tom A]

It does look a bit "flat" in contrast - maybe try something like Rodinal 1:50 for 11-12 min for a snappier neg?
Also check with Photographers Formulary for some Benzotriazole. This is an antifog chemical. Mix up 1 gram in 100 ml of hot water (60C+) and ad 10 ml /1000ml developer (ready mixed) and that tends to clear the fog a bit. Dont add too much as this will decrease the speed of the film considerably. The benzo stores well in stock solution.

 

[Nokton48]

My second run of XX film is just finished up, and the film (four rolls) are now drying. Using the ADOX Borax MQ I ran the developer time seven minutes at 68 degrees F, exactly, as in my first (two-reel) run. Agitiation in four-reel Nikkor tank was fifteen seconds initially, then 5 inversions once each minute.

Re-reading Leo's posts, he's getting nice looking negs using seven minutes on the jobo. The extra continuous agitation appears to have added a tiny bit of extra contrast, which seems to help this film. I just got some very good stuff, including focus-tests, using most of my lenses on my new M2.

 

[dpetrzelka]

I just did a roll of 5222/XX shot 400EI, in stock Xtol for 6.5 minutes at 68 degrees F. Better contrast than I was getting at 6 minutes.

With Xtol I do constant agitation for the first minute, and then 4 seconds every 30 secnods thereafter.

Hopefully I can post some shots soon.

 

[Tom A]

Just posted last nights run of 5 rolls of XX in Adox @7 min (70F) on Flikr. I keep finding that the XX works most consistently well in MQ developers. Gives better shadow details without blowing out the highlights.
I the weather holds up tomorrow we might go to the Chinese New Years Parade. Probably try it out with a simple shooting pack, M2/35 Asph f2/M2 with the 50f1/4 Asph and a S3 or SP with the Nikon 105/2,5. It will be interesting to see the high contrast effect of the two Asph's on XX. Probably stick with the Adox for this shoot.
Better count on another loading 1/2 day too - down to 6-7 IXMOO's and 5 Nikon cassettes loaded. Need a good (i.e. bad day for that - light is so scarce here that you dont want to lock yourself into the darkroom when you can shoot f2.8/250!).

 

[dpetrzelka]

I've got to get loading as well - 800' of XX just landed in my feezer this week (luckily half that is going home with Leo).

Finding IXMOO's is not as easy as I'd hoped- do any of you have a recommendation of a good/inexpensive to get standard black snap top relaodable cassettes in bulk?

 

[WoolenMammoth]

Freestylephoto.biz has the best deal that I found on bulk casettes. Ive found the felt wears off kinda fast, but for the price, you can use these a few times and toss 'em without caring a whole lot.

 

[dpetrzelka]

Thanks for the tip WoolenMammoth

 

[Nokton48]

dpetrzelka,
If you can roll up hundred footers of 5222, and have a bulk loader, you can get the 35mm C41 cartridges your local mini-labs throw-out in the garbage, and they are free, and work just fine. But you have to scotch-tape the bulk film (the C41 leader that protrudes form the end of the cartridge), something best done in the light.

Back in my press-photography days, under deadline pressures, I used to use Tri-X film at EI 800 and develop in -one minute- using straight Dektol Developer and continuous agitation. I have developed hundreds of rolls this way, it's actually works pretty well. Now I wonder how up-rated XX would stand that kind of processing abuse? Al, have you tried it?

Tom, on your U-Tube, what is the "Leica-Thingee" that you use to roll up the film cartridge? I think I want one of those, or should I make my own from a piece of wooden dowel from Lowes?

Thanks Guys! -Dan

 

[Al Kaplan]

I've never tried Double-X in straight Dektol. I do remember see-sawing Tri-X through it in a tray, no reel involved. The negatives were quite contasty. Summertime tap water temperature here in Miami can reach 84 degrees Farenheit, and the jug of stock in the darkroom is often higher still, as much as 93 one time.

As for fast, fast processing we'd also mix the rapid fix double strength, pull it as soon as it cleared, rinse a few seconds under running water, squeegy between index and middle finger, and slap it in the negative carrier wet. The film would get fully fixed and washed as the prints were washing (but seperate from the prints). Those aluminum negative carriers would get etched by the fixer. With no time "wasted" loading reels, one or two minutes in the soup, fast rinse, two minute fix, quick rinse you'd be printing five minutes after you pulled the film out of the cassette.

Ethol UFG, followed a couple years later by Acufine (both formulas by the same chemist, Harold Bauman), and then Kodak HC-110, were all designed for fast processing of news film, and pretty much all optimized for Tri-X with a speed boost without excessive contrast.

 

[Tom A]

One paper I worked for in Sweden had a row of large diameter tubes sunk into the floor with a rack above. The rack had springloaded clampas. You attached the film to the clamps, kicked the lid aside and dunked the film in the developer - the springs made it possible to "agitate" buy pulling the film rapidly up/down. Dont know what the soup was as it was made by the darkroom guy. tri X @400/800 (not that precise value with this soup) and it was quite warm, 30sec or 60 sec depending on your light reading skills, 10 sec strong stop-bath, 30 sec fix - again very strong concentration and then a quick dip in water and after that a dip in rubbing alcohol. Grab the film and spin it quickly around (this was all done in total darkness of course so you better be alone in there or someone would be "brained" by 1.6 meter of film spinning around with a small leadweight attached to it.
Out through the light hatch and on to the enlarger (focomat IIa/c) and afterward you prayed that you could get the emulsion away from the glass carrier! Prints were with Ilford paper and again, concentrated Dektol/Fix and quick wash and on to a big and very hot dryer that fed it out to the night editor! With no mishaps, process/print and deliver in 6-7 min. I doubt that the prints were archival, but as long as they lasted long enough to go downstairs for the press guys it was fine. They did lack some of the finer details of an Ansel Adam and usuually missed at least 5 of the Zones in the Zone system. However, they were reproduced on newsprint and at 80 dpi so who cared!
OH, the Leica "spinner" is just a hollow brass tube with a lsot cut into it. Somewhat collectible! Make your own from a dowel pin or a short piece of aluminium round stock. My advice is to put a small swivel at the back end of it and a piece of shoelace on it. This way you can hang it from your wrist when you open casettes and trim the leader. They have a tendecy to roll away if you put them down otherwise. Make it a tight fit on the centerspool so that you dont have to hold it on and just have to "twirl" it with the film running through your fingers (edge only!).

 

[Tom A]

Just downloaded another batch of XX on our Flickr site. Most of it from yesterdays Chines New Year Parade. It was quite grey and wet initially, so I shot with that in mind. Most everything ended up being f2-2.8 @ 1/250.
In the procesing I decided to add a minute to my ADOX time to see if the contrast would improve. It did work overall, but I probably would have been better off leaving it at 7min and cracking the lens open a 1/4 stop or so.
The XX is quite tolerant of overexposure so that helps when shooting meter less - just be a pessimist when it comes to light!

 

[Nokton48]

I was shooting XX 1/250@f2 myself, today. It's well below zero here, with the wind chill factor. Those new flicker photos look great. I was thinking to myself about increasing development time from over the seven minutes, to increase contrast. Good to know it's simply better to overexpose it. This film has to have plenty of overexposure latitude, it has to have a very long straight line, before hitting it's shoulder, that's obvious. I always tend to de-rate negative film some anyway, I prefer shadow detail, then get it to print in the darkroom. I rate Tri-X and Presto 400 at 250, so XX is effectively the same speed. Interesting.

 

[Nokton48]

I Want To Buy:

35mm 100' metal black, Kodak Film Spools- used to come with 100' bulk film.

35mm 100' metal film cans. Please contact me through the forum.



FYI: Color 35mm motion picture film is available, as well:

http://cgi.ebay.com/KODAK-VISION320T-35MM-FILM-400-SEALED-CAN_W0QQitemZ290205961350QQihZ019QQcategoryZ43479QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[kully]

That stuff is pretty useless to most of us. It has a yucky 'remjet' backing that needs to be removed.

 

[cosmonot]

Ok, I now have three "short rolls" (~50ft each) of 5222 on their way down from Brooklyn. That should simplify the loading issue, and get me some stock that is a little fresher than the can I have right now. It will be interesting to soup the new/old 5222 at the same time just to see how much speed it's lost. My best estimate is that the can I have now is at least 12 years old.

 

[lkgroup]

Kully,

"That stuff is pretty useless to most of us. It has a yucky 'remjet' backing that needs to be removed."

Kully, I'm not sure which film you were describing but if you are taking about Eastman XX, it doesn't have the remjet backing like the color movie film has, and can be developed in normal BW developing chemicals.

Leo