Fast Shooting With Accessory Finders

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ruben

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This question could be asked at many different threads. Yet I am interested very much in Tom's attention, at the same time everybody is invited. We are talking here about cameras without adapting bright lines.

I have small experience in using accesory viewfinders, so it looks to me a bit of a mess when shooting fast is imperative.

Therefore I would like to ask how do you do it. What do you do first? Composing or focusing ?

Both ways seem problematic when time is very scarce. If you first focus, then you may see the critical point for focusing in a different way once looking througn the accessory finder.

If you first compose and afterwards focus and fire you may loose the camera position retaining your framing.

What do you use to do to simplify and fasten these two manipualtions ?

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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Accessory finders are almost always used with wide angle lenses where DOF is generous. Hence zone focusing in advance is the norm.

I just zone focus, point the camera and shoot. If I had to focus using the rangefinder then compose using the accessory finder, most of my shots would be gone by the time I was ready.
 
I use accessory finders with tele lenses; have to, in fact, because the longest finder frame in my R-D 1 is 50mm and I routinely use lenses up to 100mm or even occasionally a 135mm.

You're right, it's problematic when follow-focusing is needed. In these situations, what I do is look through the accessory finder first to get an idea of what area the lens will cover. Then I basically ignore it and concentrate on the range/viewfinder for follow-focusing.

It's easier to remember the coverage area if you pick a few landmarks. For example, you might look through the accessory finder and say, "Okay, I'm getting everything from that bush to that tree." Once you know that, you can just monitor your subjects moving within that space without having to look through the finder. You may also be able to pick out some reference points within the range/viewfinder -- breaks in the framelines, for example -- to help you remember the coverage area.

Yes, it's kind of a nuisance, which is why combined range/viewfinders with multiple framelines became so popular! But you can make it work, especially if you're prepared to compose a bit generously and then crop the excess out of your finished shots.
 
ruben said:
This question could be asked at many different threads. Yet I am interested very much in Tom's attention, at the same time everybody is invited. We are talking here about cameras without adapting bright lines.

I have small experience in using accesory viewfinders, so it looks to me a bit of a mess when shooting fast is imperative.

Therefore I would like to ask how do you do it. What do you do first? Composing or focusing ?

Both ways seem problematic when time is very scarce. If you first focus, then you may see the critical point for focusing in a different way once looking througn the accessory finder.

If you first compose and afterwards focus and fire you may loose the camera position retaining your framing.

What do you use to do to simplify and fasten these two manipualtions ?

Cheers,
Ruben
Click to expand...


You focus long before you shoot by using a WA lens and at least f5.6 to get maximum DOF, then use the accessory VF just to quickly frame--like open sights vs. a scope on a rifle.

That's my way anyhow.
 
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I think I saw Winogrand (spelling?) use one and he never once seemed to focus with his eye up to his Leica, it was focused before it got to his eye and man was he fast!
 
You got it Sjixxxy, that is it. That video changed my shooting style and I am so much better off for it. Thanks for the links!!
 
If I am street shooting I almost always (a) pre meter the light using a hand held meter or whatever, (b) set my aperture and shutter speed accordingly - being sure to allow plenty of depth of field - i.e. erring in favor of slower shutter speed in favor of depth of field and (b) if I am using a wider lens which has inherently more DOF (which I usually am for this reason when street shooting ) pre set this to a suitable hyperfocal point so that DOF from this point to infinity is in focus.

Whether needing an accessory finder or not I can then bring the camera to my eye and shoot the instant I see something I wish to capture.

So you see when you are using a manual camera with no built in metering, an accessory finder is the least of your concerns.
 
I find that if I use a particular lens intensely enough, I get a feel for how much of what I see will be in the image. Sometimes I'll use the accessory finder to check, but often not. I've also found that by keeping a sharp eye out, I can (sometimes) see potential photos before they happen buying me a precious few moments for fiddling with focus and framing... I do miss plenty of those shots though.
 
Hi folks,
Till now all of you are taking for granted generous amounts of light. This is not always the situation.

Yet this thread is telling me the manipulation of a 35 mm lens auxiliary viewfinder should start at the yellow patch, then go for final framing and shutter release to the accessory viewfinder, and if there is any distance difference taking place in the middle, this difference is to be left for the 35mm lens to cover by its DOF.

Perhaps with long focal length lens the way should be exactly reversed.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
Ruben, with a little practice I think you'll find you'll be able to estimate distances pretty accurately, at least good enough to cover the depth of field with a 35mm. For some reason I see in 6 foot sections, and most of the time I'm taking snapshots from within 20 feet, so I can ballpark where I am within those sections- 6, 12, 18.

Maybe since I'm using a Summar on a III with a 50 brightline finder, I'm not expecting super sharp images, but I've found it works well enough outdoors (I stick it at f5.6-f11) and okay indoors to be good enough. It's fast too so that as you see something developing, you can decide how far away it will be, make a quick adjustment on the lens, and bring it up quickly for framing. I'm not making art though, and I don't pixel peep.
 
Compose, focus, adjust for parallax, compose again, shoot. I sometimes forget to adjust for parallax, and on idiotic occasions have had the finder set to the wrong focal length.
 
Ruben, I have a hate/love relationship with aux. finders. When they are good they rock, but much of the time they are bouncing on sidewalks or are tangled up in straps!
I find myself focussing first and then switch to the aux.finder for final framing. In most cases I use only these finders for wides and after a while you learn to "see" what it covers and when you are focussing you can add the extra view mentally. Often the finder is just just to confirm edges. With a 21 on a M2 I occasionally look through the finder and establish a couple of left/right points of reference and then while focussing with the camera, you just swing it until you get those two points and shoot.
Rangefinder cameras were never that good for precise framing anyway and i tend to shoot for "just a bit more" and correct in darkroom (or somethimes these days in the scanner/computer).
There is an interesting effect of using aux finder in my case. I tend to shot more verticals whilst using top mount finders! They are easier to hold up to the eye and particularly with M's - the in camera finder throws me off a bit.
This is also where the Rapidwinder or Leicavit helps as you dont have to remove or drop the camera to advance.
Some of the bright line finders are vastly superior to in camera findrs too (The Zeiss ZM series is a case in point) and that makes it more comfortable for shots were you are within hyper focal distance.
The Nikon SP was one of the first of the rangefinders with 28/35 finder built in (you focussed in the primary finder and shifted your eye slightly to the left for the 35 and 28). A bit of a revolution in 1957, but a rather skimpy finder. I often use top mount finders on those bodies. I have the VC 28 metal finder (as good as it gets) and a 35 Bright Line Nikon finder. The latter is a bit of a collectible and you here audible sighs from Nikonistas when I drop it!
The Vidom and other variable frame systems (Tewe,Nikon etc) look cute, but I find the very clumsy to use. It is either in the wrong distance setting for parallax or I have forgotten to set the focal length - and at longer settings, they do have a bit off the view, similar to a Victorian comedy "What the Butler saw through the keyhole".
 
Ruben,

Be a T lover for a lot of years, I usually focused first and then framed. Unless I was shooting really close up and the subject moved a lot it worked. Sometimes I tried to sway the same direction and time as the subject to keep them in focus. This really only got to be an issue with an 85 or a 105, 35 and wider it worked fine focusing and then composing.

I also felt that as long as I got the focus right I had a better chance at getting something usable (e.g. crop an pray it still looked good enough).

As usual Tom is dead on about finders, the best cost a lot but are worth it. Nikon and Canon both made some great bright line view finders. You need to be careful with the Canon ones as if they were made for the 7 they have a funky (but way cool) automatic way to adjust for parallax that will not work anywhere else (unless you get the special shoe, only ever seen one of on EvilBay). IMHO Brightline finder are the best.

Another option you might look into is a RASAL from Leica (or a ROSOL). They are sports finders or wire finders which have no optics, just frame lines and a hole to look through. I found them very good for existing darkness and funky lighting (e.g. caravels, street lights in dark alleys). As there is no glass, they have no flare, they fold flat and quickly adjust from 35 to 50 or 105. The Nikon version is very good but VERY expensive, I paid $35 and $55 for the two I have, going rate on EvilBay seems to be just over $100 these days.

B2 (;->
 
Good topic Ruben,

Good topic Ruben,

I used a Rollei 35 for years and using zone focusing I got very good at estimating distance (being a golfer helps alot). I normally set shutter speed as low as possible and aperature stopped down as much as possible and then just point and shoot.

Street shooting at dusk or night with longer lens is pretty difficult.
 
To add what everyone has already mentioned.

Scale focusing and taking advantage of the large DOF is the key to using an external finder.

Henri Cartier-Bresson was a heavy user of an external viewfinder. In his case it was the Leica VIDOM. He would set focus on his camera lens to 5 meters and exposure to f8-f16. The parallax correction on the VIDOM was also set to 5 meters (15ft). Then he would just fire away.

I've used this setup and the framing is very accurate.

Winogrand shot with a Canon 2.8/28mm, Leitz 28mm brightline finder and M4 bodies. I read that he rated his Tri-X at around 1000asa, which leads me to conclude that he mostly shot at 16. F16 on a 28 gets you a huge amount of DOF, with pretty much everything in focus from about 1 meter or less, to infinity.

The biggest problem is parallax shift, so the main markings in the viewfinder work best at medium and far distances. If you get closer than 1-5 meters (depending on the lens) you have to start to compensate with the dashed line at the top of the finder.
 
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