Favorite sleepers

[Rich Silfver]

Would be interested in learning about what others here consider to be good sleepers - i.e. cameras you consider to be very underrated and hence sell for a price lower than what the often spotlighted Olympus RC/RD/SP, Canonet 17, Konica S2, Minolta 7s, etc.

My personal favorites that you still can find for a low price are;

* Olympus SC
Wonderful, amazing G.Zuiko (7 elements in 5 groups) 42/1.8 lens (!!!), Cds meter and coupled rangefinder. Released 1963. (Not to be confused with the 35-S from the 1950's).

*Kodak Medalist II
Built like a tank this 6x9 camera can be converted to take regular 120 film. Great lens.

 

[bmattock]

Re: Favorite sleepers

* Olympus SC
Wonderful, amazing G.Zuiko (7 elements in 5 groups) 42/1.8 lens (!!!), Cds meter and coupled rangefinder. Released 1963. (Not to be confused with the 35-S from the 1950's).

*Kodak Medalist II
Built like a tank this 6x9 camera can be converted to take regular 120 film. Great lens.

I knew about the Medalist II, although I have never owned one. Instead, I have a Fujica G690, the interchangeable lens earlier version of the later fixed-lens models. I have a 100mm and 180mm lens, but right now, the camera is a bit sick. However, the lens is the absolute sharpest I have ever owned, bar none. You only get 8 shots on a 120 roll, but 6x9 on Kodak Portra 400UC makes the NICEST portraits you'll ever see. And you could make billboards out of 'em.

I did not know about the Olympus SC, I'll have to keep a lookout for it. I'm still looking for an EC, having obtained an RD (fantastic) and an SP (not sure I like it).

My personal sleeper favorites right now:

* Ricoh Five-One-Nine. A real oddball, but very sharp lens, a joy to work with, and the trigger winder on the bottom is fun to use. Also very, quiet.

* Agfa Karat IV. This is the one that uses regular 35mm film, not a strange proprietary cassette. Get it with the Xenon 2.0 or the Soligon 2.0 (it also came with a Xenar 2.8 or a Solinar 2.8). The quality of construction is amazing, the camera is small but solid, the shutter is dead quiet. The Karat 36 is similar in quality, but it has a split-image viewfinder that I find hard to use.

* Fujica 35-ML. Hard to find, and the shutter is often non-functioning when you find it. But it has an amazing viewfinder, a focus knob on the back that is cool to play with, and it is also very small and quiet.

* Zeiss Ikon Contina IIa. Really, really, under-rated. Not a true rangefinder, you have to use an external rangefinder or guestimate. The lens is a Novar-Anastigmat 45mm 3.5, so not very fast. But the quality of the construction of this camera will make you weep. It feels so good in the hand, it's like it was made just for you. Probably not the best picture-taker, but there are times when it matters less the sharpness and more the great feel of using a fine machine.

* Aires IIIL. Another well-made machine, though probably not up to the standard of those I've mentioned above. Many have sticky shutters that have to be exercised.

* Olympus 35-S II. As you mentioned it above, I thought I'd add that I do have one of these beauties, and I love it. Mechanical work of art. I'm not knocking the lens quality of the 70's models, but you have to admit, the construction left a bit to be desired. The finest quality construction pretty much ended for fixed-lens rangefinders in the late 1950's or early 60's. Mine has the G Zuiko 45mm f 1.8. Pretty sweet, you've seen some of the photos I've taken with it.

* Many have spoken about the wonders of the Yashica Electro 35 GSN, et al. Yet it continues to sell for five bucks on eBay. Reasons? Well, you have to buy a funky battery adapter or make one yourself, because it used a very strange mercury battery that is unobtainable even overseas, and it has and electric shutter, so it only has one speed (1/500) if it has no battery in it. Also, you can't set the shutter speed at all, it is infinitely variable between 30 seconds and 1/500 based on the meter reading, so the meter and battery both have to be working. But get one that works, and it blows the much-vaunted Canonet (I have 3 of them and like them, this is not a slam) right out of the water. The lens is awe-inspiring. I'm sorry, I'm a Canon guy, but I'd much rather have my Electro GSN (the one that works, I have 3 others that don't). And there are lots of fun variations on the Electro to collect. I now have the grand-poobah (in my humble opinion) of Electros, the 35 CC. It rocks.

If I could only have ONE of the above cameras right now, I'd probably grab the Ricoh Five One Nine. It's just a very nice camera with a laser-sharp lens.

However, my current favorite 35mm fixed-lens rangefinder right now is one of the 'cult classics', the Olympus 35 RD. Yep, that one does it all for me. That Minolta Hi-Matic 9 is pretty sweet too, though. Hmmm.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[taffer]

Very interesting thread Richard & Bill !

even though the 35 GSN is going a little higher lately, I rarely see them that cheap... As you said Bill, it seems the trick there is getting a working one, as everyone who tries it has the same opinion as you about that wonderful Yashinon 40 f1.7 !

Hmmm... unfortunately can't speak of my own sleepers, my cheaper camera was the ruski Fed-2 w/Industar 26M, at $25, but when I read you find Olympus 35s for $20 and Yashica GSNs for $13, well, I can't beat that !

Anyway, I suspect there may be some boxes (literally) full of surprises, I'm talking about Czech Flexaret TLRs, I've seen them going for $10-$20, and around $50 for more advanced or "rare" models.

The Ricoh 500G is also supposed to be another sleeper, but I seldom see them going under $50 nowadays

 

[Flinor]

I collected Yashicas for several years and never had one of G, GS, or GT Electros so I can't comment on the 45 1.7, but I have owned a CC and a GL. I think that the GL is the sleeper of the lot. Sized between the above cameras and the CC it has a great 40 1.7 lens, moving parrallax corrected framelines and is much lighter than the other G series Electros. I paid $18 for mine. But for a real sleeper I offer my $7 Lynx 14. Nothing else has that fast of a lens and it has match needle manual exposure but is very HEAVY.

Gerry

 

[bmattock]

I collected Yashicas for several years and never had one of G, GS, or GT Electros so I can't comment on the 45 1.7, but I have owned a CC and a GL. I think that the GL is the sleeper of the lot. Sized between the above cameras and the CC it has a great 40 1.7 lens, moving parrallax corrected framelines and is much lighter than the other G series Electros. I paid $18 for mine. But for a real sleeper I offer my $7 Lynx 14. Nothing else has that fast of a lens and it has match needle manual exposure but is very HEAVY.

Gerry

Gerry, I've got a 14 as well, and you're right, it is heavy, but I'm a big guy and hardly notice. As for 'match-needle' well, kinda. Mine has a needle that obscures a ball, and that's supposed to be dead-on. Not what I had in mind. But that's no problem really, since I can always meter manually.

I'm not sure about how I feel about the Lynx. The wind-on feels kind of ... funny...ya know? Not like anything I've felt before. If you have a Lynx, you probably know what I mean. It's not a consistant tension. It feels like heavy, light, light, medium, light, heavy and then you've wound it on and cocked the shutter. Maybe it's just mine.

I have shot one roll with the Lynx, so I'll have to try it again and see what I think of the lens, but it didn't seem to be a standout to me at the time - ok but not great.

The GSN, on the other hand...you could cut yourself on those images, they're so sharp.

I'll have to check out the GL, thanks for the tip!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Very interesting thread Richard & Bill !

even though the 35 GSN is going a little higher lately, I rarely see them that cheap... As you said Bill, it seems the trick there is getting a working one, as everyone who tries it has the same opinion as you about that wonderful Yashinon 40 f1.7 !

I often seem to see them that cheap, but they seem to come and go in cycles - a couple will sell for silly high prices, then they won't even sell with $15 starting bids. You just have to wait it out for the right one, and don't get emotionally involved - let it go, they'll be another along shortly.

Hmmm... unfortunately can't speak of my own sleepers, my cheaper camera was the ruski Fed-2 w/Industar 26M, at $25, but when I read you find Olympus 35s for $20 and Yashica GSNs for $13, well, I can't beat that !

I've gotten beat up pretty bad on a few auctions as well. I paid too much for my RD, and it had to be rebuilt as well (the seller said it was CLA'd, HAH!). I took a flyer on my SP purchase, I'm not sure I came out ok on that, paid quite a bit for it. But mostly I've been lucky, yes.

Anyway, I suspect there may be some boxes (literally) full of surprises, I'm talking about Czech Flexaret TLRs, I've seen them going for $10-$20, and around $50 for more advanced or "rare" models.

If you're into TLR's, I'd recommend the Yashica series as well - but I've heard that the Aireflex is a big sleeper. Some had Nikkor lenses, some had Olympus lenses. This is just what I've heard, I have no personal experience with Airesflex TLRs.

The Ricoh 500G is also supposed to be another sleeper, but I seldom see them going under $50 nowadays

Yep, that's when the secret gets out! Dealtime is over, then!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[taffer]

Thanks for the tips Bill ! Yep, auctions may catch you easily, no matter how many things you repeat yourself "let it go, there will be more"

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's me or prices for classic RFs and classic cameras by extension have gone "a step" up as a general rule.

Yahica TLRs are wonderful and often overlooked cameras. As a lot of people is looking for the highly overpriced 124G, classic models as the plain Yashica MAT, Yashica 12, 24, 124, D with nice 4-element Yashinon lenses can be found way cheaper.
I've had the opportunity of running a test with a MAT/Yashinon myself, and that lens seemed a really good performer and the overall handling of the camera was very good (had to return it to its original owner, sigh...).

Maybe when everybody is looking to Rome, we should take a look to Washington, that is, not very 'popular' models that can go easily unnoticed on eBay.

The problem is, as you noted, that once they're discovered they aren't sleepers anymore, but hey, it's the way it works

Best !

Oscar

 

[bmattock]

Thanks for the tips Bill ! Yep, auctions may catch you easily, no matter how many things you repeat yourself "let it go, there will be more"

I've done it myself, more times than I care to remember. Sigh.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's me or prices for classic RFs and classic cameras by extension have gone "a step" up as a general rule.

It appears that they may well have done so. But I believe it goes in cycles; prices will drop again.

Yahica TLRs are wonderful and often overlooked cameras. As a lot of people is looking for the highly overpriced 124G, classic models as the plain Yashica MAT, Yashica 12, 24, 124, D with nice 4-element Yashinon lenses can be found way cheaper.

I've got a Yashica 635 that my dad gave me when I was in school. It only has the 3-element Yashikor lens, but it's a fine picture-taker just the same. And the 135mm film adapter is fun!

I've had the opportunity of running a test with a MAT/Yashinon myself, and that lens seemed a really good performer and the overall handling of the camera was very good (had to return it to its original owner, sigh...).

I agree that the Yashicas are nice, but as you noted, everybody knows that now. But, also as you said, they're stuck on the 124G - you can still get the plain 124 fairly cheaply. And it's essentially the same camera.

Maybe when everybody is looking to Rome, we should take a look to Washington, that is, not very 'popular' models that can go easily unnoticed on eBay.

Here's one of my secrets - look to the models that were produced for a variety of nameplates, such as Wards, Sears (Tower) and others (Porst, Revue, etc). Sometimes they don't even get an opening bid.

The problem is, as you noted, that once they're discovered they aren't sleepers anymore, but hey, it's the way it works

I also look for cameras that are posted in the wrong sections, mis-spelled name and model brands, bad photographs or no photographs at all, or certain words like "has stuck shutter." I'm in no way mechanically inclined, but I'm slowly learning to fix up my older cameras.

I also look in the 'new today' and 'buy it now' columns for cameras where the seller has posted a way-too-low BIN price - I try to jump then. Got a Canonet QL-17 GIII that way for $7.95 a few months ago. Seller got remorse when he saw how quickly I grabbed it, knew he could have gotten more for it, but honored the deal, to his credit.

Also, you can sometimes get a better price from sellers with low feedbacks (wiser heads shy away), or those who won't take PayPal (others prefer the convenience of PayPal and won't bid). Of course, you run a risk, but hey, we're talking about $20 USD here, not a fortune!

Gads, I'm giving away all my secrets. I'll rue the day...

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[taffer]

Gads, I'm giving away all my secrets. I'll rue the day...

Don't worry Bill, there are enough cameras for us all

And in exchange for your favorite secrets, look what I found, a Mamiya C3 w/lens for $40 ! Not sure where's the secret !

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2979796843

Take a look also at the other items from that seller, there are some interesting things.

Best !

Oscar

Edit: Woops ! the sooner I post it... near $80 now.

 

[ABarGrill]

Talk about the one that got away! I had a Mamiya 330 about 20 years ago that gave me some of the best photos that I ever took. I sold it some years ago when I needed some bucks and was not taking pictures. I think of it wistfully.......I guess it's not as practical now because I scan negatives on a scanner that takes only 35mm.....but how I wish!!

Alan

 

[bmattock]

Don't worry Bill, there are enough cameras for us all

And in exchange for your favorite secrets, look what I found, a Mamiya C3 w/lens for $40 ! Not sure where's the secret !

Edit: Woops ! the sooner I post it... near $80 now.

I agree that some good deals come squeeking through from time to time - but I had a look at this one and I think I'd pass. Here's why:

1) The Mamiya TLRs are terrific, but often used by pros, usually wedding photographers. They are often flat-out 'used up' by them before being sold. For that reason, I don't usually go for cameras that pros use - like the Canon F1. I might buy a Canon FTbn, because that was an 'amateur' camera, not often used by pros, or used by them as a back-up camera. For that reason, it's often easier to find a 'second-tier' camera in good shape than it is a 'first tier' camera.

2) Shipping from Australia can be expensive! I've had a couple of purchases from there that cost me an arm and a leg.

3) This one seems to need some work, and some of it might not be cheap. I'm not sure what it means that the hinge on the winding lever is broken???

Anyway, he does have some interesting gear, thanks for sharing the URL!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[bmattock]

Talk about the one that got away! I had a Mamiya 330 about 20 years ago that gave me some of the best photos that I ever took. I sold it some years ago when I needed some bucks and was not taking pictures. I think of it wistfully.......I guess it's not as practical now because I scan negatives on a scanner that takes only 35mm.....but how I wish!!

Alan

A flat-bed scanner does a wonder on medium-format negatives with a light-hood on it, and does not cost that much! I have a Minolta DiMage Scan Dual III for my 35mm negs, but I also have a very inexpensive Epson Perfection 2400 PHOTO with the optional 5x7 light hood and negative carriers, and it will do 2400 dpi scans of anything up to 5x7, as the name implies. The optional neg scanning stuff was $99 direct from Epson. Some models even come with that stuff now.

You might look into it - it can be a LOT of fun to shoot old folding medium format cameras, and with such large negs (typically 6x9 or 6x6), the lens can be 'not so perfect' and you still get GREAT shots!

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[wierdcollector]

I agree with Bill, I've bought several Tower Rf's (Mamiya), two Sears TLS (Ricoh SLR), and seen many a Wards (Konica) RF go for reasonable if not downright cheap prices. I even picked up a Tower 51 (Illoca) for next to nothing that is one of my favourites. Also I recently picked up a "Yoitlander" for peanuts, actually a very neat (once I cleaned it up) old Voigtlander Brilliant TLR.

 

[Flinor]

Bill, sorry for the late answer on the Lynx 14, I don't get here every night. I just call everything that uses a moving needle "match needle" and I've found the Lynx fairly accurate even allowing me to go a 1/2 stop or so over or under depending on the circumstances. I've been sitting here winding an old roll of film on since I read your post about the advance lever and mine feels fine. A little heavy but consistent effort through the pull. I hadn't used the camera recently and the shutter needed exercising anyway. I agree about the lens. It's good but not up to the electro 45 but that 1.4 really gives you bragging rights.

Gerry

 

[pshinkaw]

Bill:

Neither of my two Lynx-14's have an unusual feel to the film advance. However, when I have removed the lids, I have found that the advance mechanism around the lever has a lot of lint and dirt. Some grit could be affecting the smoothness of the advance.

I used one of my 14's with a small flash and slow film to shoot some night-time outdoor parade shots a few years ago. It was one those "grab a camera and run" situations. I was pleasantly surprised to find out how sharp the lens is at wide apertures. I'm sure the contrasty light helped too, but I had to shoot at f2 and f4 on some of the distant shots.

My experience with the Yashica's generally has been that the lenses are great but the shutter's can give out easily as they get older. If you have one that works, DON'T TRY THE SELF-TIMER. The self-timer spring is frequently a dual purpose part that also powers the shutter. If you jam the self-timer, the shutter goes too.

Yashica also made a lot of variations of their cameras. You can frequently get a lens and shutter for less if you look for one of the derivatives. e.g. The fairly expensive Lynx-14e can be found as a cheaper Lynx 14 with only a different metering system. The same goes for the Lynx 5000e and Lynx 5000, and the Minister D and Campus (meterless).

-Paul