Fed 1

[mindcircus]

Hello,
I 've just bought a FED 1 and I'm not quite sure it's working as it should...

First of all, is Z speed the same with B? Because the shutter curtain is not open while I push the shutter release button. I can't evaluate the speed, but it's quite fast as far as I can see. Also, how can I check if all speeds work right?

Secondly, when I turn the cocking knob it needs 720 degrees in order to be armed. In the first 360 degrees I feel almost no resistance and shutter speed dial does not turn. Is it right? I mean it seems to me it's pulling more than 36mm film...

Thirdly, what happens if I change speeds before winding? When I tried to test it I made this mistake once :bang:, but it doesn't seem to have any problem.

Last but not least, how difficult it is to adjust the rangefinder accurately?

Thanks in advance,
Stelios

 

[MarkoKovacevic]

Hello,
I 've just bought a FED 1 and I'm not quite sure it's working as it should...

First of all, is Z speed the same with B? Because the shutter curtain is not open while I push the shutter release button. I can't evaluate the speed, but it's quite fast as far as I can see. Also, how can I check if all speeds work right?

Secondly, when I turn the cocking knob it needs 720 degrees in order to be armed. In the first 360 degrees I feel almost no resistance and shutter speed dial does not turn. Is it right? I mean it seems to me it's pulling more than 36mm film...

Thirdly, what happens if I change speeds before winding? When I tried to test it I made this mistake once :bang:, but it doesn't seem to have any problem.

Last but not least, how difficult it is to adjust the rangefinder accurately?

Thanks in advance,
Stelios

You might have the same problem as me, regarding the lack of resistance then a bit at the end. My shutter won't open, take off your lens , shoot a photo and see if it does fully.

Heres a youtube vid of my problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8z6ax7ITBk

 

[wolves3012]

Hello,
I 've just bought a FED 1 and I'm not quite sure it's working as it should...

First of all, is Z speed the same with B? Because the shutter curtain is not open while I push the shutter release button. I can't evaluate the speed, but it's quite fast as far as I can see. Also, how can I check if all speeds work right?

Secondly, when I turn the cocking knob it needs 720 degrees in order to be armed. In the first 360 degrees I feel almost no resistance and shutter speed dial does not turn. Is it right? I mean it seems to me it's pulling more than 36mm film...

Thirdly, what happens if I change speeds before winding? When I tried to test it I made this mistake once :bang:, but it doesn't seem to have any problem.

Last but not least, how difficult it is to adjust the rangefinder accurately?

Thanks in advance,
Stelios

Yes, Z is the same as B - I think it's from the german "zeit" meaning time (I'll stand corected if that's wrong!).

It's hard to test all speeds without a speed-tester, especially unless you're willing to remove the bodyshell. Try a piece of white paper in the film gate, makes it easier to see.

It should not take 720 degrees to cock the shutter, only about 360. If it takes two turns then the shutter isn't working properly.

Setting the speed before cocking doesn't do any harm but it's pretty meaningless. There is a caveat though: it's possible to try and pass from B to 1/500 by mis-reading the dial and that WILL break a pin inside so just be careful. Any unusual force should be considered a warning!

The RF isn't hard to adjust but it can be tedious. I'd recommend a visit to ZorkiKat's excellent site for how, plus a wealth of other useful stuff.
http://jay.fedka.com/

 

[payasam]

To the best of my knowledge, "Z" is for "zeit".

 

[mindcircus]

Thank you...

Thank you...

Although you 've brought me bad news 🙁 thank you very much for your answers.
Now one more question... Is it possible to fix it myself? I know there is plenty information out there, but will I need a second FED 1 for parts?

 

[wolves3012]

Although you 've brought me bad news 🙁 thank you very much for your answers.
Now one more question... Is it possible to fix it myself? I know there is plenty information out there, but will I need a second FED 1 for parts?

If you're reasonably adept with small screwdrivers and reasonably mechanically minded it's perfectly possible to fix it yourself. Have a good read on Jay's site (as mentioned above) or there are other sources. Just be aware that it can be frustrating at times, finding things like 4 out of 5 screws come out and the 5th is stubborn or breaks can try your patience!

As a tip: if possible, when you take it apart, take pictures with a digital camera at each step and make notes/sketches. That way you have something to refer to when re-assembling!

If you have a go and get stuck at some point, just stop where you are at and post a question on here - someone will know the answer.

From the sound of things you need to remove the crate from the bodyshell initially, then assess the problem(s) before deciding what next. With regard to spares, these cameras are actually fairly tough and in my experience are rarely actually broken. They usually need only a proper service and adjustment (CLA). If it turns out you have to pull it all apart completely, it may be worth thinking about new curtains unless the existing ones are perfect. Since it's a fair old pain putting it all back together and they are undoubtedly old, it may be worth doing at that stage and save yourself the trouble later.

 

[mindcircus]

Curtains have been changed recently as the old owner informed me. They seem new to me too... Now it's time to work!

Thanks again

 

[wolves3012]

Curtains have been changed recently as the old owner informed me. They seem new to me too... Now it's time to work!

Thanks again

I wonder if that's the cause of the problem with double-winding. If the restrictor-gear hasn't been positioned correctly or something when it was re-assembled...

Let us know how you get on and what you find.

 

[shadowfox]

Yes, Z is the same as B - I think it's from the german "zeit" meaning time (I'll stand corected if that's wrong!).

If "Z" indicates Zeit, which does mean "Time", then the shutter ought to stay open if you click once. Then it should close on the second click (like a toggle).

Which is different than B, which usually indicates "Bulb" where the shutter stays open if you hold the shutter button down, but closes the minute you let go.

 

[wolves3012]

If "Z" indicates Zeit, which does mean "Time", then the shutter ought to stay open if you click once. Then it should close on the second click (like a toggle).

Which is different than B, which usually indicates "Bulb" where the shutter stays open if you hold the shutter button down, but closes the minute you let go.

Good point. I think it's kind of historical. Z for Zeit is for time exposures. B is for Bulb (or Brief) which is for the same purpose but yes, there is a subtle difference. Some of the FEDs and most Zorkis have a lockable shutter button for long exposures. I think the B for Bulb idea stems from the early method of open flash - open the shutter, fire the flash manually, then close the shutter.

 

[mindcircus]

I found this in http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/info/2.htm:

Malfunction: Shutter speed ''B" works as 1/20 s
Reason of malfunction: Long operation or wrong assembly of shutter. The result is the increasing of course of the lever speeds, and the lever in the end of a course touches a brake latch and allocates it.
Way of elimination: At an insignificant contact it is enough to file a finger, in a place of a contact with a brake latch. If the lever contacts a brake latch strongly, it is necessary to disassemble shutter for elimination of malfunction.


I don't have time to start disassembling right now, but when I do I'll need your valuable help

 

[wolves3012]

I don't have time to start disassembling right now, but when I do I'll need your valuable help

When you get the crate out, I'll make a suggestion for the first check to make: Look directly under the shutter button, at the bottom of the camera. Hold the button down and look under the long flat spring, you'll see a small shaft poking through. Does that shaft have a lot of play (try wobbling the film sprocket to move it)?

I had the double-wind problem on a Zorki 1 and that was the cause: wear in the bearing. I had to disassemble it and make a bush to repair it.

 

[fanshaw]

I found this in http://www.dvdtechcameras.com/info/2.htm:

Malfunction: Shutter speed ''B" works as 1/20 s
Reason of malfunction: Long operation or wrong assembly of shutter. The result is the increasing of course of the lever speeds, and the lever in the end of a course touches a brake latch and allocates it.
Way of elimination: At an insignificant contact it is enough to file a finger, in a place of a contact with a brake latch. If the lever contacts a brake latch strongly, it is necessary to disassemble shutter for elimination of malfunction.

Well that's clear!

 

[mindcircus]

Well, the crate is off and now I see I have the same problem with MarkoKovacevic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8z6ax7ITBk

When you get the crate out, I'll make a suggestion for the first check to make: Look directly under the shutter button, at the bottom of the camera. Hold the button down and look under the long flat spring, you'll see a small shaft poking through. Does that shaft have a lot of play (try wobbling the film sprocket to move it)?

I had the double-wind problem on a Zorki 1 and that was the cause: wear in the bearing. I had to disassemble it and make a bush to repair it.

I've tried it and it seems the shaft has quite a lot of play and that's probably the cause... So what now? Do I start disassembling?

Also, do you have any idea how to remove the shutter speed dial? I've unscrewed the small screw on it, but I can't do anything else...

 

[wolves3012]

Well, the crate is off and now I see I have the same problem with MarkoKovacevic...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8z6ax7ITBk

I've tried it and it seems to shaft a little and that's probably the cause... So what now? Do I start disassembling?

Also, do you have any idea how to remove the shutter speed dial? I've unscrewed the small screw on it, but I can't do anything else...

On FSUs the speed dial either lifts off after undoing the tiny screw(s) or else it unscrews. On the FED 1 I'm pretty sure it unscrews (normal left-hand thread).

You really need to figure what's going wrong, preferably before going any further. Once you take it all apart it can be hard to figure how the problem was caused!

 

[mindcircus]

I've tried it and it seems to shaft a little and that's probably the cause... So what now? Do I start disassembling?

Sorry, I meant the shaft seems to play quite a lot...

The speed dial doesn't seem to lift off and I can't unscrew it because I 'm afraid not to harm the shutter mechanism and the tooth wheels. I have the same problem with winding knob, which didn't have any tiny screw in it...

It seems it will take me some days to move on

 

[Charles Woodhouse]

Usually there is a lot of play in these early Russian Leica copies but if their curtains are in reasonable condition they can function well. However some hamfisted repairers tend to wind the curtain tensions right up when they can't get the shutters to work correctly, and then even with the shutter is set on Z or B(same difference), the curtains will just rush through. And also if the speed dial is screwed on, it is a right hand thread so you unscrew it anti-clockwise. Occasionally Russian Leica copies do have problems with the long flat spring that is operated by pressing the release not allowing the second curtain latch to depress and briefly arrest the second curtain, and occasionally the spring that depresses the second curtain latch lacks the tension to do its job. But these problems and othersd can occur in Leicas as well.

 

[wolves3012]

Sorry, I meant the shaft seems to play quite a lot...

The speed dial doesn't seem to lift off and I can't unscrew it because I 'm afraid not to harm the shutter mechanism and the tooth wheels. I have the same problem with winding knob, which didn't have any tiny screw in it...

It seems it will take me some days to move on

Try a few seconds with a pencil-flame blowtorch (but then beware of how hot it'll be!), that ought to help it.

If there's a lot of play in that shaft it is likely to cause double-winds. Try winding on and releasing the shutter while it's out of the shell. Look carefully at the positions of the two pins at the bottom of the sprocket before and after firing the shutter. They should come to rest touching or almost touching after the shutter fires.

 

[mindcircus]

If there's a lot of play in that shaft it is likely to cause double-winds. Try winding on and releasing the shutter while it's out of the shell. Look carefully at the positions of the two pins at the bottom of the sprocket before and after firing the shutter. They should come to rest touching or almost touching after the shutter fires.

I've tried it... You see that's the problem: When I fire the shutter, the lower pin (the one that moves with the button) sometimes rests under the upper pin, not next to it, so the upper pin (the one that moves with the winding knob) needs one more round to be next to it in order to push it and tense the curtains.


I warmed the speed dial with a lighter but it didn't move at all no matter how much force I put. Could WD-40* help?



*a spray that helps rusty or stuck screws to be unscrewed

 

[wolves3012]

I've tried it... You see that's the problem: When I fire the shutter, the lower pin (the one that moves with the button) sometimes rests under the upper pin, not next to it, so the upper pin (the one that moves with the winding knob) needs one more round to be next to it in order to push it and tense the curtains.

I warmed the speed dial with a lighter but it didn't move at all no matter how much force I put. Could WD-40* help?

*a spray that helps rusty or stuck screws to be unscrewed

WD40 may help, you'll have some trouble getting it in the right place though. You'll have to get some onto the shaft and leave the camera upside down so it runs into the right place. My idea of the pencil-blowtorch is that it's very intense heat, so it heats the dial quicker than the shaft, causing expansion and freeing the thread. A lighter may not be powerful enough - just a guess!

Regarding the pins, that problem is exactly what my Zorki was suffering from. In that case, it was slop in the lower bearing but it could also be caused by incorrect "timing" of the restrictor gears. You really need to establish which is the cause but to solve it it's all going to have to come apart anyway.

If you're willing to live with it, however, there is probably a "dodge" - before winding on, turn the speed dial a little (anticlockwise), that will cause the pins to drop into place. - IF it's caused by slop in the bearing!