chadavox
Newbie
Hi,
I'm new to film photography and I never use a rangefinder before.
I somehow got a Leica Minilux - love it, my only film camera. And now,
I am intending to get myself a RF which is not as expensive as the
Leica's or the Bessa R. So my quest for my own version of poor man's Lecia has got me into shortlisting these RF:
1) Yashica Electro 35 GSN
2) Canon Canonet QL17 GIII
3) Olympus 35 RD
4) FED 5 (Heard Industar-61 LD is a very sharp lens)
5) FED 2
6) Zorki 4 (heard Jupiter 8 lens is great too)
And now, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I don't know which one to choose.
I have read that the Russians RF are better than the Japanese RF I mentioned up there. So I have finally decided to get myself the FEDs or the Zorki 4 and still, I don't know which one is the best.
People said FED 2 is better than FED 5 but why ? And somehow, people also said the lens that come with FED 5 i.e. Industar-61 LD is better. But most people prefer Zorki 4 than the FED. And then, there's Zorki 4 , 4k , FED 5, 5b and 5c. Hmmm......
Can Industar-61LD fit into a FED 2 and also a Zorki 4? Can a Jupiter 8 fit into a FED2 and FED5 ? But most importantly, can someone help me to recommend a RF that can take good pictures with sharp lens ?
I have been reading out a lot of these stuff and checking them out in ebay. It seems I can't stop. I even spent most of my time doing that in work. I think I'm going to get fired soon. If not, I'm sure I will be going nuts soon. Please save me from this misery. Thank you all
I'm new to film photography and I never use a rangefinder before.
I somehow got a Leica Minilux - love it, my only film camera. And now,
I am intending to get myself a RF which is not as expensive as the
Leica's or the Bessa R. So my quest for my own version of poor man's Lecia has got me into shortlisting these RF:
1) Yashica Electro 35 GSN
2) Canon Canonet QL17 GIII
3) Olympus 35 RD
4) FED 5 (Heard Industar-61 LD is a very sharp lens)
5) FED 2
6) Zorki 4 (heard Jupiter 8 lens is great too)
And now, I'm in the middle of nowhere. I don't know which one to choose.
I have read that the Russians RF are better than the Japanese RF I mentioned up there. So I have finally decided to get myself the FEDs or the Zorki 4 and still, I don't know which one is the best.
People said FED 2 is better than FED 5 but why ? And somehow, people also said the lens that come with FED 5 i.e. Industar-61 LD is better. But most people prefer Zorki 4 than the FED. And then, there's Zorki 4 , 4k , FED 5, 5b and 5c. Hmmm......
Can Industar-61LD fit into a FED 2 and also a Zorki 4? Can a Jupiter 8 fit into a FED2 and FED5 ? But most importantly, can someone help me to recommend a RF that can take good pictures with sharp lens ?
I have been reading out a lot of these stuff and checking them out in ebay. It seems I can't stop. I even spent most of my time doing that in work. I think I'm going to get fired soon. If not, I'm sure I will be going nuts soon. Please save me from this misery. Thank you all
julio1fer
Well-known
A lot of questions there. Let me answer about the Russian RF cameras and lenses you mention.
The Industar 61 LD should mount in any LTM camera, including the FED 2, FED 5, Zorkies, etc. Same for the Jupiter-8. My advice - if in doubt, get both.
The FED2 has a more classic look than the FED5, but both are very capable and the FED5 is -IMO- more convenient to use. The FED5 is definitely not a beautiful camera. But it is so cheap that you can buy one just for the sake of it.
Zorki 4 - a nice camera too. Big difference with FED2 is the large viewfinder. It has a shorter rangefinder base line than FED2, but if you use long lenses you should not be using a RF camera in any case.
You'll probably be happy with any of the three Russian RFs you mention. Get any of those, go out there and shoot, shoot, shoot!
The Industar 61 LD should mount in any LTM camera, including the FED 2, FED 5, Zorkies, etc. Same for the Jupiter-8. My advice - if in doubt, get both.
The FED2 has a more classic look than the FED5, but both are very capable and the FED5 is -IMO- more convenient to use. The FED5 is definitely not a beautiful camera. But it is so cheap that you can buy one just for the sake of it.
Zorki 4 - a nice camera too. Big difference with FED2 is the large viewfinder. It has a shorter rangefinder base line than FED2, but if you use long lenses you should not be using a RF camera in any case.
You'll probably be happy with any of the three Russian RFs you mention. Get any of those, go out there and shoot, shoot, shoot!
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mh2000
Well-known
I don't know why you think the FSU rangefinders are better than the Japaneses ones... I think it's more likely the other way round... but the FSU will have more character (if they work!)... I think most people put the Canon on top with Zuiko fans arguing the RD should be on top. Of the FSU, the FED 2 is a very well finished camera, my only real complaint is that the VF is so darkened (in an attempt to increase contrast of the RF patch)... other than that, it's a nice camera. The VF on the Z-4 is great, positively great and the camera is ok, my only real beef is the weird bunched up speeds, very hard to know you are getting 1/60th... the big heavy FED 5... well, they tend to work... ugly as sin, smell bad and are rough around every edge... but they do work... come with the 61 L/D (which is what everyone says it is... painted numbers and all). My J-8 will not work smoothly when mounted on my FED 2... someone else has similar problems on this forum. My favorite lens is the I-22 because it collapses... and takes pretty good photos... the J-8 is ok, pretty in silver IMO...
Unless you just can't help yourself... get the QL17 GIII (I can't tell you how many hundreds of dollars I essentially wasted on FSU cameras and lenses... reliability is a problem no matter where you buy... they aren't as good as others (no matter what anyone tells you or tries to convince themselves of...)... really... but there is something about FSU gear that is addicting... it's like a fatal attraction or something... I can't help myself, but if you can save yourself the heartaches... do so now.
good luck!
...and... um... a Leica IIIc is a really nice camera... that will take any of those FSU lenses... and it will probably even work!
Unless you just can't help yourself... get the QL17 GIII (I can't tell you how many hundreds of dollars I essentially wasted on FSU cameras and lenses... reliability is a problem no matter where you buy... they aren't as good as others (no matter what anyone tells you or tries to convince themselves of...)... really... but there is something about FSU gear that is addicting... it's like a fatal attraction or something... I can't help myself, but if you can save yourself the heartaches... do so now.
good luck!
...and... um... a Leica IIIc is a really nice camera... that will take any of those FSU lenses... and it will probably even work!
David Murphy
Veteran
As noted above, Japanese rangefinder cameras are generally of a higher level of build quality than FSU cameras - in many cases significantly so. My recommendation, if you are on a budget, is to buy a fixed lens rangefinder like the QL 17, the Konica S2, the Minolta 7s, or any of several Yashica models. The Konica S2 in particular offers really exceptional value for the money. I'd forget about using any of these with internal metering or exposure control and plan one setting your own exposure with a good handheld meter like the the ones made by Gossen or Sekonic. You'll get superior results and avoid thorny battery issues.
One FSU exception (in my very opinionated view) are the older models of the Kiev 4 or 4a, which can be good budget interchangeable lens rangefinders. I own a good working one now, but I've had about a 30% problem rate with these as well. If you stick around this site and watch the classifieds, you will evetually find some good bargains for all the cameras you are looking for.
Whatever you do decide to do, please post some results here and tell us about your experiences!!
One FSU exception (in my very opinionated view) are the older models of the Kiev 4 or 4a, which can be good budget interchangeable lens rangefinders. I own a good working one now, but I've had about a 30% problem rate with these as well. If you stick around this site and watch the classifieds, you will evetually find some good bargains for all the cameras you are looking for.
Whatever you do decide to do, please post some results here and tell us about your experiences!!
Joao
Negativistic forever
Hi
If you want a fixed lens RF, the Yashica Electro 35 GSN is a good option. Concerning the interchangeable lenses FSU RFs, remember that:
FED 2 has fewer options in slow speeds
FED 5 has a selenium lightmeter that can be old or dead (useless)
Zorki 4 has the advantages of both (good esthetics as the FED 2, slow speeds as the FED-5). If a winding lever is important to you, choose a Zorki -4K instead (but I believe they have painted numbers on the dials, instead of long-lasting engraved ones...).
Lenses are interchangeable but in my experience each of my lenses performs better with a particular camera than with the others, so I do not change them so often.
For this reason, and considering their price, I would advise you to have one of each (as I do). Moreover, they are different to use, and it difficult to explain why...
Regards
Joao
If you want a fixed lens RF, the Yashica Electro 35 GSN is a good option. Concerning the interchangeable lenses FSU RFs, remember that:
FED 2 has fewer options in slow speeds
FED 5 has a selenium lightmeter that can be old or dead (useless)
Zorki 4 has the advantages of both (good esthetics as the FED 2, slow speeds as the FED-5). If a winding lever is important to you, choose a Zorki -4K instead (but I believe they have painted numbers on the dials, instead of long-lasting engraved ones...).
Lenses are interchangeable but in my experience each of my lenses performs better with a particular camera than with the others, so I do not change them so often.
For this reason, and considering their price, I would advise you to have one of each (as I do). Moreover, they are different to use, and it difficult to explain why...
Regards
Joao
wolves3012
Veteran
Just one other point on the Zorki 4/4K: It's the only FSU with a "proper" flash-sync switch, should that matter to you. It gives correct sync at ALL speeds from 1/30 down (even "B"), unlike FEDs where ONLY 1/30 is correct.
dll927
Well-known
One matter you've left out -- those Japanese RFs are also a great deal more expensive, most of them by now being regarded as "collectors' items".
How much is there to the story that FEDs were regarded originally, at least, as the 'every-man's' camera, and the Zorkis were regarded as more upper class?
I have several Zorkis, nos. 1 to 6, except I so far don't have a Z-2, the rarest and most expensive of the bunch. Then at one point I decided to get some other-than-black examples, so I got three FED 2s. Somehow they come across to me as not being as well-made. In fact, at least one of them seems pretty difficult to get the back on and off of. Yet I constantly see praises for the FED-2, leaving me to wonder if it isn't something of a cult following.
Much ink has been spilled over the conditions of FSU cameras and how to repair them. It seems they invite do-it-yourself repair work, somewhat akin to the old line that anyone who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client. Many seem to think they are FSU camera repair people!!
One way around this is to buy the cameras from dependble dealers. In my book, you can't beat Yuri at Fedka in NYC. You'll probably pay a bit more than to somebody in Ukraine, but you are also more likely to get something that works.
How much is there to the story that FEDs were regarded originally, at least, as the 'every-man's' camera, and the Zorkis were regarded as more upper class?
I have several Zorkis, nos. 1 to 6, except I so far don't have a Z-2, the rarest and most expensive of the bunch. Then at one point I decided to get some other-than-black examples, so I got three FED 2s. Somehow they come across to me as not being as well-made. In fact, at least one of them seems pretty difficult to get the back on and off of. Yet I constantly see praises for the FED-2, leaving me to wonder if it isn't something of a cult following.
Much ink has been spilled over the conditions of FSU cameras and how to repair them. It seems they invite do-it-yourself repair work, somewhat akin to the old line that anyone who acts as his own lawyer has a fool for a client. Many seem to think they are FSU camera repair people!!
One way around this is to buy the cameras from dependble dealers. In my book, you can't beat Yuri at Fedka in NYC. You'll probably pay a bit more than to somebody in Ukraine, but you are also more likely to get something that works.
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
For a first time rangefinder buyer, stick with one of the Japanese cameras you list. They are reliable, have excellent lenses (the Yashica's in particular is comparable to the best lenses out there), useful viewfinders, and are inexpensive. They also have meters, and while there may be some battery availability issues, there are readily available workarounds for that problem.
The Soviet-era cameras do have interchangeable lenses. But you would need a separate viewfinder to use any lens other than the standard 50mm lens with them. And these cameras and lenses do generally require refurbishing work to make them anywhere near enjoyable to use. They are fun, yes, and can be addictive, but do yourself a favor and go with the Japanese cameras, which are going to prove much less of a hassle on average.
The Soviet-era cameras do have interchangeable lenses. But you would need a separate viewfinder to use any lens other than the standard 50mm lens with them. And these cameras and lenses do generally require refurbishing work to make them anywhere near enjoyable to use. They are fun, yes, and can be addictive, but do yourself a favor and go with the Japanese cameras, which are going to prove much less of a hassle on average.
Robburrito
Member
I have a Fed-2 in good shape and enjoy shooting with it. It's a very "antique" feeling when shooting, knob wind and all. I think it's great if you want a Baranack- style camera, that feel of a camera your grandpa might have used. The Japanese RF's are a lot more modern-feeling. Minolta Hi-Matic 7s is a good dirt-cheap RF, I bought mine for $10 and have taken some good shots with it.
oftheherd
Veteran
Any of the three Japanese cameras you mentioned are good, as are the ones mentioned in the posts. They are of course, fixed lens rangefinders; you can't interchange the lenses. That may or may not be important to you. As mentioned, most of the older Japanese cameras used mercury batteries, so if they haven't been adjusted to an alkaline you must use a wein. That is if their light meters even work. You can of course us a hand held light meter, which is always a good thing to have, but that is one more thing to stress about and pay for.
The FSU have been pretty well described. You can find a lot more information by checking the Russian RF forum. You will also find information about the Kiev. One poster above mentioned them. I have one and like it. The Kiev is a Contax copy, so Leica or Leica mount lenses won't fit on it. In working order, it is as good as a Fed or Zorki, but you did express a preference for Leica mounts.
There is no way to know if any FSU you buy will work correctly unless you are sure of the seller. Even then it may go bad on you. That is less likely if it has been CLA's recently by someone who knows what they are doing. We have people like that here at RFF.
If interchangeable lenses aren't important, find a good fixed lens camera from Japan. The Canonets are good, but some think some others have better lenses. I can't tell you on that. I have a Canonet and like it, but I think I lean a little towards my Olympus SP. I would suggest you might want to pick one that lets you shoot in both auto-exposure mode or by letting you choose the shutter speed and aperture you want.
The main thing I would tell you is whatever you decide on, shoot a lot. Experiment with every thing you can think of as far as different films, lighting, and composition. Get and read lots of books. Post some of your shots here if you want advice or comments.
Good luck.
The FSU have been pretty well described. You can find a lot more information by checking the Russian RF forum. You will also find information about the Kiev. One poster above mentioned them. I have one and like it. The Kiev is a Contax copy, so Leica or Leica mount lenses won't fit on it. In working order, it is as good as a Fed or Zorki, but you did express a preference for Leica mounts.
There is no way to know if any FSU you buy will work correctly unless you are sure of the seller. Even then it may go bad on you. That is less likely if it has been CLA's recently by someone who knows what they are doing. We have people like that here at RFF.
If interchangeable lenses aren't important, find a good fixed lens camera from Japan. The Canonets are good, but some think some others have better lenses. I can't tell you on that. I have a Canonet and like it, but I think I lean a little towards my Olympus SP. I would suggest you might want to pick one that lets you shoot in both auto-exposure mode or by letting you choose the shutter speed and aperture you want.
The main thing I would tell you is whatever you decide on, shoot a lot. Experiment with every thing you can think of as far as different films, lighting, and composition. Get and read lots of books. Post some of your shots here if you want advice or comments.
Good luck.
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shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
A *real* Zuiko fan would know that it's the 35 SP on top
My personal experiences (not from reading) is that 35 RD and Minolta 7s II shares the second spot.
Canonet GIII QL17, I still have nothing to say about it despite owned it and shot it except for it'll sink faster in the lake and it has a long name.
And about the Leica iiic (my choice as well), it's still a good deal more expensive than a $25 Zorki 1. And it's not less likely to require a CLA for long term use.
timmyd18
Established
you could get yourself a bottom of the line Fed 2 and Fed 5 for about 40 bucks each, including shipping. then you've got a nice industar61 l/d lens (on the 5) and a really classic and fun to use camera. heck, for that price, you should get yourself a kiev 4 aM as well. but i agree with Julio, whatever you get, just use it a lot
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
When I wanted to try if my J-8 (chrome 1960's version) would fit on my Fed-2 yesterday, it did not work.
The lens was screwed on the body, but then I was not able to turn the focus ring anymore.
40oz
...
I've got a Canonet G3 QL17 in great condition, and it is great to use.
I also have three Kiev bodies and more lenses. IMHO, the Canonet is a fine camera with a fine lens, but a good Jupiter-8 is a better lens. My Kiev's are fine cameras as well.
My Canonet had a CLA and new light seals before I purchased it, which made it a bit more expensive than any of the Kiev's. But none of my Kiev's had any work done to them since they left the factory as far as I can tell. Now that I have several bodies, I'm looking for a place to start sending them for a CLA. The only thing any of them need is new internal light baffles and perhaps a cleaning - they are all fine except for minor light leaks, which is why they sold for cheap in the first place.
IMHO, all the cameras the OP mentions are fine. The FSU models are "better" in that they are interchangeable lens designs - one can mount as good a lens as one is willing to pay for, if one so chooses. If one is willing to pay for a CLA'd camera, it really comes down to what one wants - auto exposure features found on the Japanese bodies are nice when starting out, but a minor handicap to actually getting good at learning exposure. The Canonet is fully functional as a manual body, which is unusual for the Japanese fixed lens cameras. The FSU models are all manual bodies, which can be intimidating for a new user, but Sunny 16 is easy to learn.
I also have three Kiev bodies and more lenses. IMHO, the Canonet is a fine camera with a fine lens, but a good Jupiter-8 is a better lens. My Kiev's are fine cameras as well.
My Canonet had a CLA and new light seals before I purchased it, which made it a bit more expensive than any of the Kiev's. But none of my Kiev's had any work done to them since they left the factory as far as I can tell. Now that I have several bodies, I'm looking for a place to start sending them for a CLA. The only thing any of them need is new internal light baffles and perhaps a cleaning - they are all fine except for minor light leaks, which is why they sold for cheap in the first place.
IMHO, all the cameras the OP mentions are fine. The FSU models are "better" in that they are interchangeable lens designs - one can mount as good a lens as one is willing to pay for, if one so chooses. If one is willing to pay for a CLA'd camera, it really comes down to what one wants - auto exposure features found on the Japanese bodies are nice when starting out, but a minor handicap to actually getting good at learning exposure. The Canonet is fully functional as a manual body, which is unusual for the Japanese fixed lens cameras. The FSU models are all manual bodies, which can be intimidating for a new user, but Sunny 16 is easy to learn.