FED-2 with bottom bearing problems

[Sykomor]

Home again after a vacation I took some pics of my new FED-2 and shot a first test roll that is in development right now. I will probably use it with the CV28 in the streets.

During cleaning I noticed that I would probably loose a few frames as the winding not always tensions the shutter. It happens maybe 1 in 100 so it’s not a big deal but wolves3012 kindly informed me that this probably is going to get worse over time. He also pointed at the cause which is here. The two pins of the winder are not engaging.

He also informed me that the solution is to turn the shutter-dial a little counter-clockwise after releasing the shutter or before winding. … the short time solution that is. If I will like the new camera I will probably want to make a permanent fix to it and to do so I will have to get a new bottom bearing. If I decide to fix it I will follow up on this thread. All pointers appreciated.

 

[wolves3012]

If you look carefully at the bottom of your lower photo, you'll see a shaft poking through by the long, flat spring. Not the smaller pin but the one at the end that passes through the spring, directly under the sprocket. Try and wobble that shaft, with the shutter un-cocked. If it wobbles by more than a very small amount, especially to the left and right, the bearing's worn.

Unfortunately, it's a lot of work to remedy it. The bearing is not directly replaceable because it's just a hole in the shutter crate casting. You need to strip the camera fully, then drill out the hole to a larger size. Then you need to make a bushing, out of something like brass for preference and fit it to the enlarged hole. Then reassemble the camera.

All in all a lot of work for a low-value camera. Don't let me put you off if you want to tinker, just letting you know what's involved. I've done this on a Zorki 1 and ended up with a suberbly-running camera.

First, decide if you're willing to put up with it as it is and also check if it is, indeed, a worn bearing! Oil the bearing anyway, it may keep going a fair while as it is.

 

[fidget]

One of my (almost mint) FED2s did this. It lived in a box for a couple of years until I had the urge to fix it. On mine one pin dropped on top of the other, quite frequently, I recall, instead of just in front of it (in terms of winding on) when the shutter was fired.
One mine, the bearing was fine, but on close examination I discovered that, for reasons unknown, someone had enlarged the slot in the gear directly under the pins that you see. The slot is what limits the movement of the curtains (or second curtain, it's been a while since I looked into one).
The fix was to clean up the slot and shorten the end of the slot a little by "blobbing" some solder on it and then cleaning it up with a needle file (so that the solder formed a little crescent within the end of the slot). This was just the fix. Hope yours is fixable.

Dave

 

[Sykomor]

There is play of a little less than a mm that obviously is too big. I applied a little clock oil and I’ll see what happens during a few rolls. I was expecting a bronze bearing or sleeve or something; not just a hole.

There seems to be enough room for a bearing outside the casting that maybe could be glued in place. There's room for experimenting anyhow. So far it has been low cost fun.
Big thanks for the help.

 

[Sykomor]

One of my (almost mint) FED2s did this. It lived in a box for a couple of years until I had the urge to fix it. On mine one pin dropped on top of the other, quite frequently, I recall, instead of just in front of it (in terms of winding on) when the shutter was fired.
One mine, the bearing was fine, but on close examination I discovered that, for reasons unknown, someone had enlarged the slot in the gear directly under the pins that you see. The slot is what limits the movement of the curtains (or second curtain, it's been a while since I looked into one).
The fix was to clean up the slot and shorten the end of the slot a little by "blobbing" some solder on it and then cleaning it up with a needle file (so that the solder formed a little crescent within the end of the slot). This was just the fix. Hope yours is fixable.

Dave

I'm almost certain that it is the worn bearing. I can't see what you describe.

I just removed the big shutter spring to make a closer examination and heard something falling inside the camera. After some double heart beats i removed the lens and found the pieces. I'll try to get it together again and leave it for a while.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Nice camera. Re your last picture: normally this is not the state were the camera should be in when winding the camera. When winding, the flat spring at the bottom, should be flat against the shuttercrate. If after a shot is taken, the flat spring can not get back into that position, i.e. flat against the shuttercrate, the shutter cannot be wound (fully). Apart from the cause that was already mentioned to you by woves3012, it could also be caused by:
1. the sprocketshaft being filthy, with perhaps a spring that doesn't work to well (the spring in the sprocketshaft);
2. the second curtain release arm (the hocky stick) is sticky - that is the tiny shaft poking through the flat spring;
3. the flat spring needs reajustment;
4. the release mechanism altogether may be a bit sticky in need of service (in many old cameras the restrictor gear and the spring above gear in the taking up spool need cleaning and oiling to overcome faults like these).

I'm almost certain that it is the worn bearing.
I just removed the big shutter spring to make a closer examination and heard something falling inside the camera. After some double heart beats i removed the lens and found the pieces.

?????? wonder what fell out: if you only took off the flat spring, you turned the screws loose that fasten the light baffle in the lower (front)part of the camera!, With the flat spring disassembled you could easily ascertain if there is play in the part that Anthony describes.

 

[Sykomor]

Nice camera. Re your last picture: normally this is not the state were the camera should be in when winding the camera. When winding, the flat spring at the bottom, should be flat against the shuttercrate. If after a shot is taken, the flat spring can not get back into that position, i.e. flat against the shuttercrate, the shutter cannot be wound (fully). Apart from the cause that was already mentioned to you by woves3012, it could also be caused by:
1. the sprocketshaft being filthy, with perhaps a spring that doesn't work to well (the spring in the sprocketshaft);
2. the second curtain release arm (the hocky stick) is sticky - that is the tiny shaft poking through the flat spring;
3. the flat spring needs reajustment;
4. the release mechanism altogether may be a bit sticky in need of service (in many old cameras the restrictor gear and the spring above gear in the taking up spool need cleaning and oiling to overcome faults like these).



?????? wonder what fell out: if you only took off the flat spring, you turned the screws loose that fasten the light baffle in the lower (front)part of the camera!, With the flat spring disassembled you could easily ascertain if there is play in the part that Anthony describes.

With the spring loose I can certainly feel the play that shouldn't be there. It was easy enough to put it together again.

It doesn't feel like my M2 but I'm not really sure what to expect. The seller insured me that he had claaned and lubricated it and there certainly is oil in it but not where I would put it. I'm not so sure about the cleaning though but I didn't expect more for 5000 Ft.

It could be a combination of the play and what you describe. I'll leave it for now and enjoy my new toy. Thank's for all input.

 

[Sykomor]

I forgot to mention that it looked like the spring pulled the shaft to the left maybe causing excessive wear to the bearing so I made sure it got a little play when I reassembled it. Perhaps it helps a little.

 

[wolves3012]

It's sideways wear in the bearing that causes this problem (that's assuming bearing play is the culprit). The bearing wears oval, so it's easy enough to see if there's more play sideways than backwards/forwards. Remember these cameras aren't made with precision-engineering tolerance so some play in this, non-critical area, is normal.

To be honest, they really should have ramped the pins rather than having them square-profiled. That way a slight overlap would not cause any problems. Re-profiling them in situ might be possible with a thin file but I've never tried it.

 

[Sykomor]

It's sideways wear in the bearing that causes this problem (that's assuming bearing play is the culprit). The bearing wears oval, so it's easy enough to see if there's more play sideways than backwards/forwards. Remember these cameras aren't made with precision-engineering tolerance so some play in this, non-critical area, is normal.

To be honest, they really should have ramped the pins rather than having them square-profiled. That way a slight overlap would not cause any problems. Re-profiling them in situ might be possible with a thin file but I've never tried it.

It has crossed my mind. I was really tempted for a while to dig out my magnetic contact breaker-point file.

After more than a hundred blind exposures it failed twice. I will put a TX through it and see how it goes.